Black Dog Arsenal Gone?

[20InchAR15]

Has anyone heard anything about Black Dog Arsenal?

https://www.wtkr.com/news/virginia-...-machine-gun-parts-according-to-court-records


Well, I guess that explains it. Not trying to break his balls at all. He's a really nice gentleman. I wonder how much of what they're saying on there is true. His MAC welding kits weren't illegal. It was really probably just those two single receiver cut pieces.

 

[Member13]

all but two of his listings on GB are gone and his website is down

 

[mattnh]

I’d guess he was specifically targeted for selling MAC kits.
From reading the article, it is difficult to tell if he engaged
in any illegal activities or not.

For him, at best, the legal process will be the punishment.
Prob 500k+ to mount a good legal defense.

 

[Roaster72]

I’d guess he was specifically targeted for selling MAC kits.
From reading the article, it is difficult to tell if he engaged
in any illegal activities or not.

Did you read the article? He sold two receivers with a single saw cut. This has been a no no for like forever. Heck, the ATF stopped importation of saw cut receivers with multiple cuts years ago. He may be a heck of a good guy but he was stupid and was blatantly violating the law.

 

[mattnh]

I read the article - yeah, sounds bad on the surface, but you
never know until the details are out….
Eg Were they complete receivers or parts of one with a cut?
Recently cut or imported that way?

2k unsecured bond - seems oddly low if he is danger to society…

 

[boomer535]

When I bought my Sten MKII back in 1990 I bought two parts kits for spare parts. The receivers on them are saw cut pretty cleanly. Is ATF going to give my any troubles over this now? I don’t intend to sell them.

 

[20InchAR15]

I have to agree with Matt. This wasn't about the MAC receivers. This was about the two obvious single cut machine gun receivers. The even showed pictures of it. But yea, it doesn't matter how nice he is.

 

[20InchAR15]

No, because saw cutting is still an acceptable practice, so long as it's in two places and has a 0.250" kerf. Also, if that was the case, they would've come after you awhile ago.

 

[okpud]

No, because saw cutting is still an acceptable practice, so long as it's in two places and has a 0.250" kerf. Also, if that was the case, they would've come after you awhile ago.

Saw cuts require you dispose of a part of the receiver. Torch cuts must be at least 0.25"

Actual text for the NFA Handbook:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-atf-p-53208/download

The preferred method for destroying a machinegun receiver is to completely sever the receiver in
specified locations by means of a cutting torch that displaces at least one-quarter inch of material at each
cut location. ATF has published rulings concerning the preferred destruction of specific machineguns.

A machinegun receiver may also be properly destroyed by means of saw cutting and disposing of certain
removed portions of the receiver. To ensure that the proposed saw cutting of a particular machinegun
receiver is acceptable, FTB should be contacted for guidance and approval of any alternative destruction
proposal. Note: a machinegun receiver that is not properly destroyed may still be classified as a
machinegun, particularly in instances where the improperly destroyed receiver is possessed in
conjunction with other component parts for the weapon.

 

[20InchAR15]

Either way, the point is the MAC Weld Kits are not the problem, even with the myth about having to ship out the center section without side flats. Furthermore, he didn't even make his own mag wells or include one. Once again, either way, those two machine gun receivers without a proper number and type of cuts were the problem.

 

[svlwolf]

So anyone make m10/m11/m12 welding jigs now?

 

[Kramer]

Since saw cut receivers were legal up to a point, can the aTf prove when his receivers were saw cut? I remember the company that that sold the Uzi parts kits that were cut clean with a bandsaw and the atF said that they could be fired when assembled with duct tape. They even went around grabbing the parts kits. Some were allowed to keep all the non receiver pieces and some had the whole kid seized.

 

[Brian in MASS]

Coles had those kits . Got a call from the ATF... we will come out and pickup the receiver. One band saw cut ...

 

[20InchAR15]

Coles had those kits . Got a call from the ATF... we will come out and pickup the receiver. One band saw cut ...

Wait you got one of those receivers? Why? So this is obviously not about the MAC Flats or his welding kit because those were all closed bolt semis. While you can't produce them, they are legal to acquire. Hell Robert Cowan was producing MAC Flats with all the naughty holes until he passed away earlier this year.



I'd honestly like to see court documents about this case.

 

[trilogymac]

Back "in the day", saw cut / demill in that fashion was common.

This post made me go back and check my Sterling back up parts kit, that I haven't seen in decades. We good!

 

[Alaska_Shooter]

Do the new demil rules apply to guns that were saw cut under the old demil rules? Basically, do old saw cut receivers that were previously legal need to now be torched or are they grandfathered in some way?

 

[20InchAR15]

Do the new demil rules apply to guns that were saw cut under the old demil rules? Basically, do old saw cut receivers that were previously legal need to now be torched or are they grandfathered in some way?

I imagine they are not grandfathered in. I wouldn't know though. They require you to get rid of one receiver section.

 

[sniperdoc]

Interesting question if, back then,, you used a saw cut receiver to build a semi auto. Do you have to "re destroy" the receiver?

 

[A&S Conversions]

Do the new demil rules apply to guns that were saw cut under the old demil rules? Basically, do old saw cut receivers that were previously legal need to now be torched or are they grandfathered in some way?

How would you have documentation on the date the receiver was saw cut? I would think, an machinegun receiver that was saw cut would need a center section that was missing. If all the parts of the receiver was present, then it would need to be demilitarized to current specifications. At least that is my understanding.

Scott

 

[A&S Conversions]

Interesting question if, back then,, you used a saw cut receiver to build a semi auto. Do you have to "re destroy" the receiver?

It would seem to me that the receiver parts would needed to be modified to semi auto specifications before it was welded back into a firearm frame or receiver.

Scott