Brand New UZI Buyer. FA
- Thread starter Rtc079
- Start date
AKarms
Well-known member
I have a group reg bolt that I have over 100k rounds on, cut down and I run it in mini and micro. It’s flawless. Never jams. Never fails. Group bolts imo are good. The group/vector RR….. different story
mike
UZI Talk Life Member
Yeah, it surprised me too.
Dirk Hawthorne
Well-known member
And it ain't a Vector!
I've had 2 of those POS come thru and neither one would run without EXTENSIVE work. I'd take a BG bolt in an IMI host all day long over a Vector. Yeah, I've got a real woody for them.
So what if you need to fix a Vector? It's not an expensive gun to fix, and if you send it to an actual competent gunsmith they run great afterwards.
My Vector popped the trunnion weld and the rear plate weld.
I had it redone by BWE for like $300 and now it runs 100%, probably more than 20k rounds through it. It almost never jams.
There is no way on earth that I would take a registered bolt or married bolt over my Vector.
Dirk Hawthorne
Well-known member
I've had 7 BG bolts over the years and I’ve been fortunate in that they all ran great. I have heard that there is an occasional BG with issues. If I were buying a bolt or a Vector as a first SMG I'd want proof of life. Wait, not true, I wouldn't be buying a Vector.Back in the day the joke was, if a Vector said unfired, it really meant it wouldn't run (Seriously).
I've had a few of the Group bolts and they were without issue as was your experience.
But the bolt is a part that wears. Registered bolts do need repairs sometimes, don't they?
mike
UZI Talk Life Member
It’s funny this argument has been going on since the site started. Soon as you say, you have a registered bolt your treat is the redheaded stepchild. I’ve been on this site so long I’m used to it. Lol
Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
IMHO, bolts are over rated unless you cut them down and use in a mini or micro, for my money I'd want a RR as the price seems to have gotten out of sync with RR prices. Used to be bolt was about 20% less.
trilogymac
UZI Talk Supporter
I'm glad you are happy with your Vector but, in my world friends don't let friends buy Vectors.
I'm sure there are bolts that have issues, I've just never seen one and DEFINITELY not as often as a Vector in need of repair. I'm sure, once they have been gone through by someone competent, they will be fine but like I said, I'd want proof of life and even then it would be in the back of my mind, when will it fail.
The analogy would be MKE VS HK. They both might run but......
I owned a CNC machine shop for 20 years and when talking about machines, people would say, It's just like a Mori Seki. Ah no its not!
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Dirk Hawthorne
Well-known member
what if you are in fact a red-haired guy who has a stepfather and also a registered bolt? then it's like a double whammy
If Vectors were the eternal "problem children" that you say they are, then you would see that reflected in the pricing.
MG buyers know the score pretty well at this point, the NFA marketplace does a pretty efficient job of pricing all those transferrable MGs out there.
Certainly nobody is paying a premium for the Vector name, it's a knock-off.
Also, once a Vector is trued up and rewelded, why would it be less reliable and durable than a conversion? It's just sheet metal and weld metal.
The thing that makes Vectors fail was the bad welding technique by Vector when they were fabricated. Welding is a science, if the guy doing the welding doesn't know his job, you end up with bad welds. But it's not irreparable.
trilogymac
UZI Talk Supporter
My main point in all of this is that the OP is a newbie and needs to know what to look for in his quest. My take on Vectors is clear and will give him some added knowledge as to issues Vectors have. Many have been fix, many have sat in safes and are still a problem. Recent case in point number 1: A buddy bought one from a top dollar dealer and was comfortable because of the reputation. He is more of a collector than a shooter so the gun hung on the wall for almost a year. He took it out and yup, you guessed it, wouldn't run, trunnion was welded off. Case in point #2: Im friends with a well known smith that works on Uzis regularly. I asked him about 2 weeks ago what he had in the shop for Uzis as he likes to batch his work. He told me he had 2. I asked if they were upgrades, he said no, they are repairs. I said, let me guess, Vectors. Sure enough!! Damn I think I'm psychic. I won't even go into the recent circus I had with a Vector semi Mini.
The continual # of issues just makes me very weary to say the least.
I don't feel like a newbie wants or need to deal with twisted receivers, trunnions welded off or backplates breaking on a 20k purchase. I just hope this thread has been helpful.
OP, good luck in your search. IMI Uzis are awesome.
I'm out.
Bill
The continual # of issues just makes me very weary to say the least.
I don't feel like a newbie wants or need to deal with twisted receivers, trunnions welded off or backplates breaking on a 20k purchase. I just hope this thread has been helpful.
OP, good luck in your search. IMI Uzis are awesome.
I'm out.
Bill
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I personally prefer an IMI UZI.
I was at the 2005 UZITalk shoot when Vector was there: https://www.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/UTshoot2005.htm
Rex of Vector handed out some information with tips. I recall one was about fitting topcovers and how the Group receivers were not to IMI spec. He had hand drawn pictures of the top of the receiver showing the difference between a Group receiver and IMI. Not a big deal but something that may be something to look out for when fitting.
He also said that when the receivers come out of heat treat the bend in a "banana" shape. They would put them in fixture to straigten them out after heat treat. I have seen several Vectors that were clearly not straight.
I have a friend that a full auto Mini that wasn't straight and was never reliable. He sent it back to Vector at least 3x. On it's last trip back, it got ran over by a UPS truck. I wish I still had that picture he sent me. It was destroyed.
Ralph (president of Vector) felt bad for him and he traded out his personal Mini (since they didn't have any left) for my friend's Mini. That one runs well, I would assume so since it was hand picked by the owner.
All that said, I see a bunch of Vectors that run well too. I have seen some that run well and then the trunion weld breaks and then you need someone to re-weld it. I have heard of the welds breaking on an IMI as well but that is a lot more rare than a Vector.
Again, the bigger issue to me is a bent receiver something I don't want to have to deal with. I have never heard of this issue with an IMI unless it was run over by a truck or something.
Best case is you buy from someone you know that you know it runs. However, me personally, I would have more piece of mine if it were IMI over a Vector.
I remember when the Vector's were coming out. IMI UZI's were going for around 3K back then. The Vector's were introduced I think for around 2500 depending on quantity. This helped to slow down the increase in price on IMI UZI's. I was happy to see this is as it gave me more time to afford to get another IMI UZI.
I was at the 2005 UZITalk shoot when Vector was there: https://www.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/UTshoot2005.htm
Rex of Vector handed out some information with tips. I recall one was about fitting topcovers and how the Group receivers were not to IMI spec. He had hand drawn pictures of the top of the receiver showing the difference between a Group receiver and IMI. Not a big deal but something that may be something to look out for when fitting.
He also said that when the receivers come out of heat treat the bend in a "banana" shape. They would put them in fixture to straigten them out after heat treat. I have seen several Vectors that were clearly not straight.
I have a friend that a full auto Mini that wasn't straight and was never reliable. He sent it back to Vector at least 3x. On it's last trip back, it got ran over by a UPS truck. I wish I still had that picture he sent me. It was destroyed.
Ralph (president of Vector) felt bad for him and he traded out his personal Mini (since they didn't have any left) for my friend's Mini. That one runs well, I would assume so since it was hand picked by the owner.
All that said, I see a bunch of Vectors that run well too. I have seen some that run well and then the trunion weld breaks and then you need someone to re-weld it. I have heard of the welds breaking on an IMI as well but that is a lot more rare than a Vector.
Again, the bigger issue to me is a bent receiver something I don't want to have to deal with. I have never heard of this issue with an IMI unless it was run over by a truck or something.
Best case is you buy from someone you know that you know it runs. However, me personally, I would have more piece of mine if it were IMI over a Vector.
I remember when the Vector's were coming out. IMI UZI's were going for around 3K back then. The Vector's were introduced I think for around 2500 depending on quantity. This helped to slow down the increase in price on IMI UZI's. I was happy to see this is as it gave me more time to afford to get another IMI UZI.
trilogymac
UZI Talk Supporter
Too funny Robert. One of the many issue with the mini circus semi I referenced above, was that the top cover was cut short. it wouldn't even latch on my IMI. When cut and welded, the whole gun was assembled too short, as if put together in a high school welding class. The receiver was also so warped that even with the barrel restrictor ring cut and moved, the sights were almost at max. Yeah I hit the trifecta with that one. I've been playing with Uzis since 85 (a long time), as have you, and seen and continue to see the issues. On a positive note, I didn't have to worry about the back plate cracking out, as it wouldn't fire.
Best advice I can give a newbie is "Make a wide path".
Best advice I can give a newbie is "Make a wide path".
I purchased a Vector from MidWest off of an Auction for $16.8K Delivered about 5 months ago. I did have to send it off to get the lower changed from Full-Auto Only to Safe- Semi - Full, and also, decided to have feed ramp upgraded and a new paint job/coating, but its tuned up and runs great now. Check the auctions. MidWest is a broker but fair and honest (from my experience)
I’d rather have an IMI gun, myself. I was just noting those Vectors because they are priced much lower than the $20k bolt. Some vendors like Reuben always price the Vectors substantially higher than the IMI guns, which I have always thought was interesting. I guess some buyers prefer a “factory gun” rather than a converted gun.
Mine is a full conversion IMI Model B. I personally like the Model B sights better but many prefer the Model A since it is the original SMG spec. However, if it is important to you to have spare parts for everything on the gun, Model B sight parts are pretty hard to find nowadays while Model A sights are everywhere.
Mine is a full conversion IMI Model B. I personally like the Model B sights better but many prefer the Model A since it is the original SMG spec. However, if it is important to you to have spare parts for everything on the gun, Model B sight parts are pretty hard to find nowadays while Model A sights are everywhere.
Jmacken37
Mr. Miata, UZI Talk Life Member,
Even the IMI guns can have problems. I've got 2 factory IMI posties that had to go to BWE at various times for fixes of intermittent problems.
Edited to add...How awesome it is to have such a knowledgeable bunch (I'm talking to you Amphibian) on this forum!
Edited to add...How awesome it is to have such a knowledgeable bunch (I'm talking to you Amphibian) on this forum!
I think you just have to visually inspect the vector, make sure it runs, and make sure it has been shot enough to hopefully uncover any issues. I did that with mine before I made the purchase.
You'd have to do the same inspection with an imi too, especially due to them mostly having been semi guns converted to FA by various smiths back in the day. A vector is a known quantity as far as it having all the SMG features out of the box (I think this is appealing to many people.).The imi guns aren't necessarily that, and some can't be fully brought up to smg spec (i.e. blocking bar can't be removed).
All things equal, I'd probably take an imi in which the conversion was done right, and it had been converted to have all the smg features over a vector. Having said that, I would and did happily buy a vector that I was able to visually inspect and verify that it ran. It has been rock solid, as have been my friends guns that also own Vector uzis.
You'd have to do the same inspection with an imi too, especially due to them mostly having been semi guns converted to FA by various smiths back in the day. A vector is a known quantity as far as it having all the SMG features out of the box (I think this is appealing to many people.).The imi guns aren't necessarily that, and some can't be fully brought up to smg spec (i.e. blocking bar can't be removed).
All things equal, I'd probably take an imi in which the conversion was done right, and it had been converted to have all the smg features over a vector. Having said that, I would and did happily buy a vector that I was able to visually inspect and verify that it ran. It has been rock solid, as have been my friends guns that also own Vector uzis.
All I can say is that I'm satisfied with my Vector. It has run reliably since I got it. I got it from an in-state dealer so I could look it over before buying and the dealer I got it from had a stellar reputation.
If there had been an IMI with a full conversion for the same price, I would probably gone that way, but that wasn't what was available.
If there had been an IMI with a full conversion for the same price, I would probably gone that way, but that wasn't what was available.
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