CFW M10/45 and M11/380 Slowfire Bolts

[cajun 22]

If I read between the lines correctly, the A bolt is a little faster and smoother that the full size bolt. I might go for one but would like to hear from the users on the differences and maybe a video too.

Thanks again Vegas for all that you do and Mike for dreaming it up.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Are the revised A’s ready to run .380 as long as the recoil spring is cut to 64 coils? Thanks in advance!

My limited understanding is that the mags that fit the large magwell like the Z-mag doesn't support the shorter .380 round well enough to guide the round into the chamber. The mags for the small magwell do. So .380 in a Z-mag doesn't run reliably. It is about the design of the mags and the speed of the bolt that makes for the feeding problems. It is not the design of the bolt that is the problem.

Scott

 

[tlrgsxr]

Thanks for the response Scott! I realize now I left out a crucial bit of info. I meant to ask, are the revised A’s ready to run in a small mag well .380 as long as the recoil spring is cut to 64 coils?

 

[strobro32]

My limited understanding is that the mags that fit the large magwell like the Z-mag doesn't support the shorter .380 round well enough to guide the round into the chamber. The mags for the small magwell do. So .380 in a Z-mag doesn't run reliably. It is about the design of the mags and the speed of the bolt that makes for the feeding problems. It is not the design of the bolt that is the problem.

Scott

Thanks for the response Scott! I realize now I left out a crucial bit of info. I meant to ask, are the revised A’s ready to run in a small mag well .380 as long as the recoil spring is cut to 64 coils?

Both of these have been my experience.

I hope that someone else with experience posts their results and maybe a video.

 

[T3heli]

Any word if the new A-bolt will still work in the Lage sk uppers?

 

[TheColtCollector]

Any word if the new A-bolt will still work in the Lage sk uppers?

It always has

 

[Vegas SMG]

Any word if the new A-bolt will still work in the Lage sk uppers?

Here’s a video from about year and a half ago. Looks like it works just fine.

https://youtu.be/XjKFR1cwNbc

 

[T3heli]

Thank you both. Just helped me make my wallet a little thinner.

 

[strobro32]

It's been fun to reread this thread. It's been 4.5 years since it started. I'm glad that another run of A-Bolts will be available for future owners. I plan on making more videos of the A-Bolt with the small grip M11A1. I find it more fun than my M-11A1/22 mod, especially because I can reload 380 for the price of 22LR.

 

[ScottinTexas]

FWIW, I have a SWD M11/9 and a CFW bolt...and a small magwell RPB M11..and this thread pushed me over the edge to buy an A-bolt too.

Ya bunch of drug pushing enablers...

 

[tlk]

It's been fun to reread this thread. It's been 4.5 years since it started. I'm glad that another run of A-Bolts will be available for future owners. I plan on making more videos of the A-Bolt with the small grip M11A1. I find it more fun than my M-11A1/22 mod, especially because I can reload 380 for the price of 22LR.

A reliable slowfire .380 has always been one of my 'Holy Grails' Lately I've been thinking about starting up the hunt again and there were a couple of things I was hoping you guys could help with.

First - I currently have two CFW bolts that are marked 9mmA. I know there were at least a couple different runs of the bolt. Are there any differences between the production runs that would make one more or less suitable for .380? If so, how can you tell the bolts apart?

Second - I have a large magwell M11A1. I'm considering buying a few small magwell mags, then adding material to get the mags to properly position and operate in a large magwell A1. Is there any reason this might not work? Which mags would be best to start with as donor mags, would the FTF mags that just became available be good candidates?

 

[strobro32]

First - I currently have two CFW bolts that are marked 9mmA. I know there were at least a couple different runs of the bolt. Are there any differences between the production runs that would make one more or less suitable for .380? If so, how can you tell the bolts apart?

The bolt face is made for the 9x19 so it works with 9x17. Here's the thread where Vegas talks about the variations in bolts.
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showth...ere-to-get-one

Second - I have a large magwell M11A1. I'm considering buying a few small magwell mags, then adding material to get the mags to properly position and operate in a large magwell A1. Is there any reason this might not work? Which mags would be best to start with as donor mags, would the FTF mags that just became available be good candidates?

The grip for the large mags is longer than the small grip. The mag stop tabs on the small 380 mags will stop the small mags from inserting completely in the 9mm grip.

 

[tlk]

Thanks for the info. Mag stops can definitely be corrected Regarding the 380 bolts, I think remember seeing pictures of prototype bolts marked .380, but I thought those never went on sale and the end result was just using one of the 9mm A bolts with a different spring. I've tried searching, but I think the forum search ignores key words less than 4 letters so finding anything for CFW or 380 has been a challenge...

I'll be honest, life happened and I lost track of what was happening with the 380 bolts. I suppose I should go back through all 16 pages of this thread to get more up to speed Either way, I think starting with a known good mag then adapting it to work in a large magwell is probably the simplest path to compact, slowfire 380 for me. Is there a specific mag that you'd recommend using or a thread that already has the mag info?

 

[strobro32]

You are correct. Tom only sells one bolt now, the CF-W A bolt. He only sells it for a drop in replacement for 9x19 in the big grip M11A1s because he knows it works. Using 380 in the 9mm mags with the larger grip the M11A1 can have some reliability issues. Some people, like myself, cut down the springs to use the A-bolt for 380 with small grips and smaller mags. Reliability is good with that combo.

 

[tlk]

Got a little more information from Tom about how to tell the A bolts apart. Since Tom explains it best I’m just going to quote him here. Hopefully he doesn’t mind

The first generation A bolt [was designed] specifically to run 9mm and the large mag well M11-A1. I went back and completely redesigned and tweaked the A bolt. I can say with 99.9% certainty you will not get a first generation bolt to run .380. I use the font size to indicate generational changes.​

Turns out I have one of each, so looks like I’m on track so far. The 2nd generation, .380 capable A bolt is shown on top in the picture below with the small MM and large A. The first generation bolt is on the bottom with the large MM and small A:



Tom mentioned that he considered adapting a small mag well FTF mag to work with a large mag well M11A1 but never pursued it. I’m moving forward with the idea and I’ll start a new thread once I have any info to share.

 

[Gaujo]

...
Second - I have a large magwell M11A1. I'm considering buying a few small magwell mags, then adding material to get the mags to properly position and operate in a large magwell A1. Is there any reason this might not work? Which mags would be best to start with as donor mags, would the FTF mags that just became available be good candidates?

I am with you on this effort. I want that .380 big grip! Sadly I have a gen1 cfw a bolt

 

[nklf]

I think someone was using the PAM II mags and getting better results than the Zytels. It might be worth a try and less work.

 

[strobro32]

Jerry from Recon Ord, PAM 2 RO mags are sold for 9mm or 380. The 380 PAM2 mags have a different follower and longer feed lips.

380 follower on right.

 

[Gaujo]

Also what about just building up feed lips on a zmag? Could you use Lage reinforcemnt tabs?

 

[tlk]

I'd forgotten about the PAM 2 mags. I emailed recon ordnance to see if they might have any 380s lying around but something tells me they're going to be hard to come by. Regardless I think they've been tested and weren't as reliable as any of the small magwell mags.

I'd also considered welding the feed lips of a Z-mag to extend them for better support of the 380 round as it stripped off, but I have minimal welding knowledge or ability at present so for me this would be more challenging than creating a spacer for a small magwell mag. Haven't ruled it out though, purchasing a welder and destroying some metal sounds like my idea of a good time

Edit: Turns out reconord does have .380 PAM2s so I ordered a few. Apparently he can also has some 60 rounders that he can make as well! Looks like I'll be doing some testing sooner than I thought...