CFW M10/45 and M11/380 Slowfire Bolts
- Thread starter komodoj
- Start date
I can not find a picture of the DIFR on the net. The pics are missing now.
Now that I think of it, the DIFR probably would not work. Lage used them as a solution for double feed mags. The DIFR fit over the feed ramp and was secured by the upper. It helped DF mags load cartridges from left and right into the chamber. The problem with short feed lips on a magazine is the cartridges tend to shoot up before the bullet nose enters the chamber.
Now that I think of it, the DIFR probably would not work. Lage used them as a solution for double feed mags. The DIFR fit over the feed ramp and was secured by the upper. It helped DF mags load cartridges from left and right into the chamber. The problem with short feed lips on a magazine is the cartridges tend to shoot up before the bullet nose enters the chamber.
DistalRadius
Well-known member
Distal to the rescue. Just pulled mine out for a few photos. Photobucket wiped out my old ones, so I don't have any "pre-fitting" pics. It required extensive fitting to my lower. But it is the key to my Max11DF running Suomi mags so it is worth its weight in gold to me.
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
Boy, that is a big ask! A M10/45 bolt is a very big chunk of tungsten. Then it not only needs the machining of a M10 bolt, but it needs extra machining to lighten it. The prototype of the M10/45 was too heavy. Certainly Vegas can comment. As I recall Vegas posted that his cost was over $1,600. Plus there is the extra machine work to lighten up the bolt as the solid tungsten bolt is too heavy. So I am clear you're asking for a "cost only" run of bolts? To me you're asking that he lay out $17,000 or $18,000 for say 10 bolts with no profit for such a big investment?
I have seen many post that they are willing to pay for the M10/45 bolt. So why don't someone pick up the torch and get this done? I would think that Vegas has done this community a great service bringing the M11 series a tungsten alloy bolt. Is this all on his shoulders? I, for one, very much appreciate what he has done. Thank you Vegas.
Scott
Offmarksman
UZI Talk Life Member
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2010
- Messages
- 824
I agree Scott. Vegas has done a lot for this community. He’s gone over and above for me personally on a couple of occasions!!!
Most folks don't have access to tooling, don't know how to use it or care to learn. Big ol chunk of tungsten would not be a whole lot of fun on a manual machine. Tooling likely won't last long so it's not only a cost of time and materials but tooling and machine wear. Gets very expensive very quick.
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
Vegas, like me, pays professionals to do the work. So it is not so much about "skills" as it is about investment. The M10 version is much more complicated than the M11 series. The full size bolt is too heavy. How will the bolt be made lighter? There needs to be a plan to do so. If you are paying professionals, that is even more money laid out before a single chip is made.
Vegas is a close friend. I hope that I am not over stepping, but as far as I am concerned, he made the M11 tungsten bolt happen for the community. He probably could have made more on the money that he has invested, just leaving the money where it was. Let's also remember time. His time lining up the professionals and testing what they did with his own ammo. I don't know, but I'll bet that he did even make minimum wage for all his time invested. If I am out of line I apologize Vegas.
Anyone that has a M10/45 bolt has the starting point. All it takes after that is money and time. So instead of asking someone else to do the money and time thing for free, get off your butt and do it for free for everyone else. YMMV.
Rant over,
Scott
Vegas is a close friend. I hope that I am not over stepping, but as far as I am concerned, he made the M11 tungsten bolt happen for the community. He probably could have made more on the money that he has invested, just leaving the money where it was. Let's also remember time. His time lining up the professionals and testing what they did with his own ammo. I don't know, but I'll bet that he did even make minimum wage for all his time invested. If I am out of line I apologize Vegas.
Anyone that has a M10/45 bolt has the starting point. All it takes after that is money and time. So instead of asking someone else to do the money and time thing for free, get off your butt and do it for free for everyone else. YMMV.
Rant over,
Scott
You perfectly explained my point. Not everyone has the time and skills to do the work. To make it happen you gotta hire the guy that does, which is a minority and generally not exactly cheap. Even just the material choice will change the cost of the labor. The cost goes down per piece if a large number are made but for one off and prototype it can be very very expensive. One of the many reasons why I end up machining one offs and prototypes where I work. It's just cheaper but still quite expensive. On top of that is the R&D costs which include ammo, fuel, range fees, etc.
I greatly appreciate the time, money and effort people like you and Vegas out into things like this that will never be large production run items.
I greatly appreciate the time, money and effort people like you and Vegas out into things like this that will never be large production run items.
Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
Second. How about a double price run for everyone that really wants one, as that is how a market economy actually works. This appears from all evidence to have been a passion project and a top flight one at that, and we should say yes sir, where should I send the check sir when he offers us stuff.
Coffeefreak quit the forum after someone asked for a bolt without his name on it. People do this for different reasons, and some do it for love of the challenge and to support the community. Don't be the one that forces a maker have to choose to either make it a business or quit.
Why bother making a tungsten M10/45 bolt if it’s going to be to heavy and they mill it out to make it lighter?!? Wouldn’t it make more sense to achieve the desired ‘not too heavy’ weight to cut off the back of a stock bolt and add a tungsten block like the original CoffeeFreak bolt?
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
They are two very different designs. The M11/NINE has much more room between the sear catch point and the back of the receiver compared to the M10. It is very close between the back of the extractor and the back of the bolt.
Personally I would think that the back of the M10 bolt be cut off to give more stroke. I have a TASK converted M10. I was able to add enough mass to the bolt with a heavy buffer that the bolt would short stroke. I lightened the buffer a little but still couldn't pull singles. There would need to be a spring loaded sleeve to support the ejector rod. If the bolt were cut back to the extractor, the ejector would fall out. It is on my list of projects to shorten one of my TASK converted M10 bolts behind the extractor and add a spring loaded support for the ejector that would collapse inside the bolt when the bolt goes all the way back to the rear of the receiver. It is not something I would try myself. I would have my engineer design it. So I need to get cash flow before spending the money.
Scott
W
Walksalone
Guest
Not sure if this helps promote the cause. I don’t have a 10 so no dog in the fight.
rybread
UZI Talk Life Member,
Given the weight of the 45 bolt I’d highly recommended getting a stock bolt & upper, trimming the spring, drilling the bolt & upper and using detents. I’m going to dig out my 11/9 prototype and insert the second detent (only tested with one detent so far but just one made a perceivable difference). Spring is coming and I’ll have some opportunities to shoot/ test again.
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