considering a Ruger Ac556F

[Battering ram NIB]

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=514913846

deal sounds decent.....ill bet with a phone call i could get him to lower his buy it now price and just get it.....$9k?

what questions would you ask on this gun?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=513431084

here's another id like even more (SS).....problem= no history on the seller

listed as new old stock......not sure how much this is worth....?

 

[Battering ram NIB]

been talking with the SS folder guy.....got the price to $11k agreed upon (loosely)...says its been fired 60 rounds....was his fathers who was a head guy in their area for law enforcement....good story behind the gun.....pics look mint...waiting for more pics....i think $11k is fair to both parties

i want a .223 FA and have been tossing between the AC556/FNC/AR15 M614.....all have their price points....for what i am looking for an AC556 would do just fine...a shooter 2-3x a year....

question: magazines----same as a mini-14?

 

[MG34_Dan]

been talking with the SS folder guy.....got the price to $11k agreed upon (loosely)...says its been fired 60 rounds....was his fathers who was a head guy in their area for law enforcement....good story behind the gun.....pics look mint...waiting for more pics....i think $11k is fair to both parties
i want a .223 FA and have been tossing between the AC556/FNC/AR15 M614.....all have their price points....for what i am looking for an AC556 would do just fine...a shooter 2-3x a year....
question: magazines----same as a mini-14?

Wait. You're going to send a person with no feedback $11K? Seriously?

 

[Battering ram NIB]

Wait. You're going to send a person with no feedback $11K? Seriously?

he is going to ship it to a local gun dealer, im going to research the gun dealer and make sure they exist and that the gun exists...im going to get an invoice from the gun dealer....THEN im going to send the gun dealer $11,000..........no one would send $11,000 to a person with 0 feedback

thats why their gun will most likely not sell on gunbroker.....we have an agreed upon price, but im waiting for a 2nd set of photos.....i think they are stalling waiting to see what happens on gun broker or dont understand once they have bids above their reserve they cant cancel it.....

i send $0 until i talk with an actual class 3 dealer and the gun is in hand....and a emailed invoice for the gun......

actual people have to sell class 3 guns too.....trying to get around consignment and sell direct to the public is all they are trying to do....ive talked with both owners (sons of the dead owner)....my gut says its legit, but i still need them to prove themselves...

while they take their time i have a nice Ar15 M614 to call on today....and i still may get a call from Frank on the Uzi for $11,400

 

[MG34_Dan]

he is going to ship it to a local gun dealer, ...

So, I take it you've never purchased an NFA item previously?

 

[Battering ram NIB]

i just bought a UZI from a dealer........so yes, but just recently.....no i have never bought from an individual who is not a dealer....

found a AR15 Model 614 for $18,500 ive offered on........once again an individual seller....

is there something i need to know?

 

[anm2_man]

If your serious about that gun, I would do a road trip. Don't know where you live, but you can find a cheap flight to GA, and rent a cheap car to take a look at it. Note: if its good, bring the money - get him to reduce the price by $1500 and make sure you get him to sign a bill of sale. Get it notarized and then give him the check. If he won't budge on the price, tell him your heading back to the airport. Because $9500 is a good price for that gun. And yes I know the Ruben has a blue folder up for $11k today, but thats his price.

I've only tried one buy long distance, it cost me $600 for the road trip, but it saved me $18,000.

Be careful out there.

 

[MG34_Dan]

i just bought a UZI from a dealer........so yes, but just recently.....no i have never bought from an individual who is not a dealer....
found a AR15 Model 614 for $18,500 ive offered on........once again an individual seller....
is there something i need to know?

Well, the first thing that seems fishy about your folding stock AC guy is "going to ship it to a local gun dealer". He cannot just send an NFA weapon to a dealer. Assuming the owner is not an SOT, he would need to submit a Form 4 to ship the weapon to a dealer, any dealer, in-state, out-state, or next door. A Form 4 requires the payment of a $200 tax be paid, no exceptions. He would then need to wait for the form's approval to ship the weapon. Add six weeks wait time, approximately. Now, let's assume the dealer would need to return the weapon to the owner. If said dealer is out-of-state, he would need to submit a Form 3 (no tax), get it approved, and ship it to a dealer in the owner's state. Add three weeks wait time. Now the in-state dealer would need to submit a Form 4 ($200 tax), get owner's fingerprints, get owner's CLEO sign-off, get the Form 4 approved, and finally return the weapon to the owner. As before add six weeks wait time. Who's going to eat those $200 transfer cost(s)?

If your AC guy is not in the same state as you, there would be the need to process two (2) Form 4s to get the weapon to you. That's a $400 total tax before shipping, insurance, and dealer(s) costs. As before somebody is going to pay that freight. If the AC guy is in your state, only one (1) Form 4 will need to be processed. That's a good thing.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

i used the wrong word---ship.....he is not shipping it he is driving it to the nearest class 3 dealer

the gun is an estate gun....i assumed he would drop it off with the dealer and the dealer would then do a form 3 to my dealer and a then a form 4 to me

2 sons selling their dead fathers gun

the UZI i just bought was NIB and i was given a written guarantee for (2) days that my dealer can inspect it to be NIB...if not i get a refund....this is why i prefer to buy as new as possible

the AR M614 im looking at is at a dealer...the gun is in the middle of a form 4 and the seller needs $$...so the seller doesnt have possession yet...i have 3 photo's close up...i also called the dealer, told him to put the gun in his hands and describe it to me.....the dealer is not selling the gun, the individual is....so between the pics and the dealer description i feel safe in offering the $18,500 he is offering..........i dont know where that deal will go.....most likely no where

sorry for the confusion on using the word SHIP...dont know why i used that word.....

i told the AC guys i will only write a check out to the class 3 dealer......also i want an invoice with the serial # before i send the $$

i have flown out to buy expensive cars and drive them home.....dont know if i am willing to drive to look at /fire a gun.........the AC for $11k is priced low enough to take the risk.......and its not like im writing a check out to an individual...im writing it out to a business which i assume will be an honest class 3 dealer

i really do appreciate all of your advice...im understanding this stuff more and more...thanks guys

 

[Openspaces]

So this discussion sparks a question (disclaimer I have never owned/transferred a MG) Is there a way to have the firearm "held" by a dealer while a form 4 in-state transfer is being reviewed?

 

[MG34_Dan]

So this discussion sparks a question (disclaimer I have never owned/transferred a MG) Is there a way to have the firearm "held" by a dealer while a form 4 in-state transfer is being reviewed?

Don't let BATFE find out. The dealer will be on the receiving end of an excruciating anal exam and the weapon faces confiscation. BATFE doesn't care a whit about weapon ownership. To them it's all about possession, nothing more, nothing less. All SOT dealers are well aware of this and would never, ever, be a party to it.

But, hey, let the entertainment begin...

 

[Battering ram NIB]

so a class 3 dealer cant take possession of the MG from the estate seller? without paperwork?

how will the gun transfer to my gun dealer w/o a class 3 dealer?....i assumed they just handed it over to the dealer and he did a form 3 to my dealer...is there more to it?

i plan on writing the check to the dealer and am willing to also put the sellers name on the check too.....

im assuming things all over the place...and i dont think the seller has a clue either......at some point i assume its going from a dealer to my dealer.....now how is that done?

im bidding on this gun in 6 hours....and have talked with them on the phone now 3x's....0 chance im sending a check to an individual

 

[MG34_Dan]

so a class 3 dealer cant take possession of the MG from the estate seller? without paperwork?
how will the gun transfer to my gun dealer w/o a class 3 dealer?....i assumed they just handed it over to the dealer and he did a form 3 to my dealer...is there more to it?
i plan on writing the check to the dealer and am willing to also put the sellers name on the check too.....
im assuming things all over the place...and i dont think the seller has a clue either......at some point i assume its going from a dealer to my dealer.....now how is that done?
im bidding on this gun in 6 hours....and have talked with them on the phone now 3x's....0 chance im sending a check to an individual

I would highly suggest a call to the BATFE NFA Branch. (304) 616-4500 They will be glad to help.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

its 3:50 Midwest time....offices are now closed

ill bid on the gun.....im not paying the extra $200 for the stamp or any extra's involved w/ the seller transferring to the dealer...

how do consignment guns work? does the consignor have to transfer the gun to the dealer and wait 2 months, then 2 months to my dealer?

 

[ScottinTexas]

In a similar transaction, I bought the gun from a dealer who did not have possession. The gun went from the seller to my dealer on a Form 4 (6-8 weeks). Then my dealer transferred to me on another form 4 (4-6 months).

I paid one stamp.

The first dealer just brokered the sale. Whatever his cut was was between him and the seller.

My check went to the first dealer, not the owner.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

In a similar transaction, I bought the gun from a dealer who did not have possession. The gun went from the seller to my dealer on a Form 4 (6-8 weeks). Then my dealer transferred to me on another form 4 (4-6 months).

I paid one stamp.

The first dealer just brokered the sale. Whatever his cut was was between him and the seller.

My check went to the first dealer, not the owner.

thats what i wanted to know....the sellers dealer can handle the $$ and also ship the gun w/o a transfer of ownership to the sellers dealer....good news!

 

[ScottinTexas]

Yes...but only upon his receipt of an approved Form 4. You'll still be exposed for a couple of months as technically the seller keeps possession until the F4 is received in the mail. Not much you can do other than pick a reputable dealer to broker it.
And there are still two transfers before you take possession; my experience is that a F3 to your dealer followed by a F4 to you isn't much faster than a F4 to your dealer followed by your F4. Somebody just ends up paying another $200 stamp for the dual F4 transfer.

Disclaimer: I'm new to this myself. The above is just my experience with two such purchases. If I misstated anything please correct me.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

the auction ended w/o meeting the reserve, but the family has agreed to sell me the gun for what i offered.

the owner is supposed to contact a class 3 dealer and get the transfer started

i asked him for an invoice from that dealer with the price paid and the guns serial #....i will then send a check to the dealer (not he owner)

i will call the NFA tomorrow.....im not sure if the owner has a form 5 filled out...i think he may....not sure if this changes anything...my local dealer said their will be (2) form 3's and 1 form 4....for me to get the gun.......so it may be 1 year before i see it.....

pretty excited right now.....

verbal agreements dont mean much, but ive talked with the seller and another relative invloved (3 are involved total) and all seem to agree on my pricing..

 

[MG34_Dan]

The final issues that must be addressed are taxes. The seller is responsible for any inheritance and/or capital gains taxes. The buyer is responsible for state sales taxes. Unlike eBay where items are purchased directly between non-licensed individuals, this NFA transaction must have a state licensed agent in the mix. The licensed agent will be responsible to show business activity on a regular basis to his state commerce department. The kick up to the state (sales tax collection) must match the business activity. If this transaction is between unlicensed parties within the same state, it would work identically to an eBay transaction with addition of the federal paperwork/taxation requirements.

There is another issue that must be addressed. That one has to do with Gun Broker (GB). When an item is sold directly on GB, the seller pays a sliding percentage of the sales price to GB for the use their service. If you bid on an item that was featured on GB but not sold, due to not making the reserve price, but you now purchase it. This completed sales transaction can be considered as committing a fraud if GB is not paid. The seller is still required to pay GB. GB was responsible for the introduction of the parties to each other. They are legally due payment for that service. The seller can be sued by GB if their are not paid. I hope he understands that.

On an $11,000 sale, the GB fee would be $150.63 -> http://www.gunbroker.com/User/Fees.aspx

 

[komodoj]

Ok I'm gonna put my two cents in.. I hope I do not cause anyone to be upset with my comments. So here goes. I think this deal is way to COMPLICATED for what it is!!! I see your heart is set on a stainless folder model. Ruben and other respectable dealers have in stock blue folders for around 11k or less. Now don't shoot the messenger but if your willing to spend 11-13k for a ac556 for 3-5k more you can get a Sp1 conversion and not have to worry about spending 1k additional for parts kits, hiring machinists to make parts and finding propietory mags? Again just my two cents. PLEASE,PLEASE,PLEASE think this threw. We are all family on this forum and we look out for one another. Again no disrespect intended in my suggestions. Good luck battering ram!