Factory UZI SMG
- Thread starter Bullethose
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colossians323
Well-known member
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- Apr 6, 2019
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troof
Lots of good info here.
I saw my 1st flipped transferables in peson yesterday.
If nothing else it was pretty cool to see them.
"New Transferrables" - What all have you seen or head of?
Confirmed list so far: o HK MP5 o HK 53 o IMI Full-size UZI o IMI mini-UZI o MG34 o Beretta M12 o Walther MPL/MPK o Sten o Type 56 stamped receiver Chinese AK o Swedish K o M3 Grease Gun o L1A1/FAL o HK VP70 machine pistol (maybe the FA stock?) Anything else else turn up? FN minimi?
www.uzitalk.com
If nothing else it was pretty cool to see them.
AKarms
Well-known member
Good deal
In the United States, the vast majority of transferrable Uzi's are either registered receivers, or registered bolt guns.
a RR was a semi Uzi that was converted to full auto and registered prior to the cutoff in may 1986.
a registered bolt gun uses a modified semi lower, but the bolt has also been modified, and the bolt is the registered machine gun (also prior to May 1986).
Neither a RR or a Bolt gun came from the factory as a machine gun - they were modified/converted later in life.
Since 1968, full auto Uzi's could not be imported, other than for Law Enforcement or military use. Dealers (FFL/SOT) could import a factory made Uzi as a "sales sample" to sell or demonstrate to Law Enforcement customers.
Last year, the ATF announced that if a "sales sample" was imported directly to a LE customer (and met certain conditions), it was now re-classified as a fully transferrable machine gun. So overnight, the value of these (still somewhat rare) factory machine guns more than doubled.
A Registered Receiver (full size UZI) sells in the neighborhood of $20K. A bolt gun for about $18K. The market for these "newly transferrable" factory machine guns is in flux - but they have sold for a premium over the conversions/bolt guns, due to rarity and that they are true factory machine guns. On the HK side, the premium has been as high as 50% or more over a RR.
So the buyer who got a newly "flipped" (re-categorized premay to transferrable) full size Uzi for $21K got a great deal, in my humble opinion
Hope this was helpful
Jeff Greenberg,
United Surplus Arms
FFL/SOT in Louisville, KY
SecondAmend
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FWIW, I personally find the use of the description word "factory" to be problematic. Was the "factory" an IMI, Group Industries, or Vector factory? I have a "factory" full size Uzi - from the Vector factory (built up from a Group Industries registered receiver).
MHO, YMMV, etc.
MHO, YMMV, etc.
AKarms
Well-known member
In my opinion, factory means imi. That’s how I refer to it anyways. Group and vector etc to me are “aftermarket” or “factory clones” if you will. They weren’t “original factory” they are still clones of the original whether they are made in a factory or not. Like doing a restoration on a classic car, “factory original “ is from the factory with original manufacture parts motor and paint etc. A resto is a resto whether it uses factory parts or not, it’s still not factory. While Group and vector used a lot of imi spec parts, they didn’t manufacture their own uzis “technically” but uzi clones. Tried to word that all to make sense
Just my opinion
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trilogymac
UZI Talk Supporter
IMO, when someone says factory, it means IMI. All others are clones.
UZI factory submachine gun would be an IMI pre that flipped, pre 68 or could be a postie.
With that said, 21k for a nice factory full size SMG is a great deal. If I could find one for that, I'd buy it if for no other reason than to flip it.
UZI factory submachine gun would be an IMI pre that flipped, pre 68 or could be a postie.
With that said, 21k for a nice factory full size SMG is a great deal. If I could find one for that, I'd buy it if for no other reason than to flip it.
SecondAmend
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- Apr 3, 2007
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- 2,031
Where in the nomenclature spectrum does an IMI Semi Uzi that was converted to a U.S. legal machine gun by prior to '86 removal of the restrictor bar (and perhaps or perhaps not other modifications such as relieving the trunnion) with concurrent U.S. registration?
The only true UZI or FACTORY UZI is a IMI gun the rest are clones.
With that said I have a full size UZI but it is not factory.
I bought a stripped IMI UZI receiver back when they were being imported and built it up to a legal semi auto spec gun.
There fore not a factory gun I completed it.
Now my mini UZI is a IMI factory gun but still a full auto conversion since the FA converted bolt pretty much lives in it.
I can't really stand the 19 inch semi barrel.
I own a transferable UZI bolt but all that makes it is a converted MG even though the bolt was a IMI bolt and the gun is IMI the bolt was still converted.
So in the true sense the only UZI full auto I would truly consider factory are these guns that are flipping or have successfully flipped status.
I do after seeing one of the flipped guns in person now know how to spot one super easy.
The markings or I should say lack of them.
A semi IMI gun is still a factory UZI as long as it was made and completed by IMI and imported by Action Arms.
it's a factory semi IMI gun made for laws in certain countries as long as long as it remains in the configuration it left IMI back in the day.
My opinion and I'm probably wrong.
Sure won't be the 1st time and I know it won't be the last.
With that said I have a full size UZI but it is not factory.
I bought a stripped IMI UZI receiver back when they were being imported and built it up to a legal semi auto spec gun.
There fore not a factory gun I completed it.
Now my mini UZI is a IMI factory gun but still a full auto conversion since the FA converted bolt pretty much lives in it.
I can't really stand the 19 inch semi barrel.
I own a transferable UZI bolt but all that makes it is a converted MG even though the bolt was a IMI bolt and the gun is IMI the bolt was still converted.
So in the true sense the only UZI full auto I would truly consider factory are these guns that are flipping or have successfully flipped status.
I do after seeing one of the flipped guns in person now know how to spot one super easy.
The markings or I should say lack of them.
A semi IMI gun is still a factory UZI as long as it was made and completed by IMI and imported by Action Arms.
it's a factory semi IMI gun made for laws in certain countries as long as long as it remains in the configuration it left IMI back in the day.
My opinion and I'm probably wrong.
Sure won't be the 1st time and I know it won't be the last.
Dirk Hawthorne
Well-known member
The word "factory", in any collector market, always refers to the original mass manufacturer during the original production time period. Not whether it was technically made in a factory or not.
Suppose a guy points to the taillights on your 1967 GTO and says, "Are those 'factory'? They look great." The guy is not asking if they were made in a factory, he's asking if they are GM products from 1967. Just because they were technically made in a factory in China for YearOne, doesn't mean they are "factory."
Group and Vector are "clones."
Guns that started life as semi-auto are "conversions."
I have a really nice Vector. It was blueprinted and rewelded by BWE and it runs 100% all the time. But absolutely nobody will ever look at it in the same collector mentality as an original IMI factory gun. It has an interesting back story, but the "historic authenticity" isn't there.
I bought it NIB and even though I am reluctant to shoot NIB collector guns, I burned 1000 rounds with it the first day I got it.
Unless a re-issue or clone or conversion has supremely excellent fit and finish, gun collectors mostly regard them as "shooters." West Hurley Thompsons are excellent ammo burners once you get them running good, but the Thompson collector community regards them to be shooters and absolutely nothing more, even though they were made 50 years ago.
That being said, I love my Vector. I am a shooter and I definitely prefer shooters to minty collector items. A nice compromise is a rebuilt military gun. I have a very nice Thompson M1A1 that was completely rebuilt at Rock Island Arsenal at some point. I bought a couple of NOS barrels and I shoot it all the time. If I burn out a barrel, who cares? It was made in 1944 and all the parts on the gun are USGI, but the originality is zero. Hardcore gun collectors think of a military arsenal rebuild as a complete evaporation of the originality of the gun and call them a "franken gun."
IMI factory UZIs are kind of an oddity, in terms of collecting, because there are so few of them in the NFA registry. I could not tell you how much that shooting an IMI factory gun devalues it, because I've never seen one that looked like it had any use.
That's my 0.02 on it, YMMV.
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trilogymac
UZI Talk Supporter
Converted factory semi...as opposed to Factory converted semi.
Agreed. IMI are factory guns. FN are also factory UZIs but it's extremely rare to see one in the United States. Group Industries and Vector weren't factories. They were a few guys doing a lot of hand work to assemble guns. Vector didn't really make any parts at all. They just assembled guns from parts made elsewhere.
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