Form 4 to dealer and shipping question

[ScottinTexas]

I'm in the process of selling / transferring a MG to an out of state buyer.

I've never done this before so I'm wondering:

a) how long is it taking for approvals of a Form 4 transfer from a non-Licensee to a Licensee?

b) if you are a non-Licensee and you've done this fairly recently, what shipper did you use to get the MG to the transferee's FFL? I'm not sure Fedex or UPS will ship for non-licensees any more and the USPS is an option but frightening to consider (and I don't think the qualify for transport insurance embedded in my Collectinsure policy).

I don't think efile is an option for the first transfer (I'm a Trust) but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Battering ram NIB]

Fed ex will ship a gun
I use my local gun dealer to ship. $25 handguns and $45 rifles. I’ve got firearms insurance and use fed ex only

I’d expect 2-3 months for approval to a dealer.

 

[ScottinTexas]

Fed ex will ship a gun
I use my local gun dealer to ship. $25 handguns and $45 rifles. I’ve got firearms insurance and use fed ex only

I’d expect 2-3 months for approval to a dealer.

Do you take the machine gun to a regional Fedex counter? Use your Fedex account? Do you have to notify them that it is a firearm / MG?

I ask as my local Fedex-owned facility will not accept firearms from an individual. I think they are 100% wrong but I've fought that battle twice and lost twice.

 

[Gaffshot]

I just went through this myself. UPS and FED Ex do not ship machine guns so you are left with USPS.

First, what machine gun is it? If it is a concealable gun under USPS guidelines, like a Mac, then it has to go USPS registered mail from DEALER TO DEALER. You have to get a FFL to go to the Post office with you and they have to fill out and sign the PS 1508 Form https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf. Otherwise, a concealable firearm is considered non-mailable and can be confiscated if discovered.

It has to be shipped Registered mail only. Read all of this: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

 

[Gaffshot]

If it's not concealable then I think you can do Registered mail to the out of state dealer without enlisting the help of an FFL. You do have to disclose that it is a MG but you can not put anything on the packaging that would indicate it to be a firearm. The packaging instructions for registered mail is very specific, including limitations on the tape you use. Dont tape the box until you are there with the teller and they tell you to.

I have seen many people say just list it as "machine parts" as and ship it. However, failing to disclose it as a firearm is breaking the USPS regs. It can catch you a felony and the item can be confiscated.

It took me about 2 months to get the transfer approved.

 

[Fulliautomatix]

Regarding part a) question.
I recently purchased an MG from an out-of-state individual on a Form 4. It took 68 days for the Form 4 to my dealer to clear.

Regarding part b)
We opted to use USPS Registered Mail. It took 9 days to get to the dealer, from an adjoining state?! The USPS was already having issues with delivery windows at that time. (obviously)

 

[Battering ram NIB]

I ship fed ex through my local gun shop!
It’s the gun shops problem if they declare it or not
They are Nfa experienced.

I ship handguns all the time fed ex. I declare it to my shipper too
Never an issue. I use a small local shop

 

[Bret]

I purchased an M16A2 from an individual about a year and a half ago. The transfer from him to my dealer took about five months to get approved. It was then six months to get the transfer from my dealer to me approved.

I just went through this myself. UPS and FED Ex do not ship machine guns so you are left with USPS.

FedEx does accept machine guns for shipment, although many who work at FedEx don't know that. They likely just error on the side of caution when saying no because it's not specifically written anywhere.

Here's a good read on the subject.
https://macmachineguns.com/?page_id=1261

I've search and search FedEx's website, but can find nothing specifically regarding machine guns, just firearms. By the same token, I can find nothing regarding 7.62x25 Tokarev ammunition, just ammunition. My point is that if they don't specifically mention that machine guns are not allowed, then they're allowed. Don't keep asking. All you'll do is get someone to say no. If it's against their policy but not on their website, then it's on them. Below is their policy:

https://www.fedex.com/en-us/service-guide/terms/express-ground-samedaycity.html

A. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms, antique firearms and replica firearms, all as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, as well as muzzleloaders and black powder firearms (collectively “firearms”), between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

B. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

C. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Drop Box. Firearms shipments are not eligible to be held at Hold at Location facilities.

D. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

E. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

F. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

G. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

 

[ScottinTexas]

So Fedex only ships between licensed dealers. That's clear enough and a subtle point that while "we" can ship firearms through Fedex, "we" means "going through an FFL licensee who is actually shipping". And I don't have an FFL.

I'll probably take it to my FFl / SOT for 'cleaning' and he can ship it.

Thanks for the input.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Please read the the Postal Regulations. There is nothing in the Postal Regulations about "machinegun". There is concealable and long gun. A Short Barreled Rifle is concealable.

Scott

 

[Battering ram NIB]

Scott. Your over thinking it all .

Take it to fed ex. Say it’s a gun and ship the way they require. They don’t need to know the make, model and rounds per minute.

I’ve received guns and Nfa from every carrier.

From dealers, gun smiths and individuals.

Sounds like you want it all to be clear and 100% legit/ perfect. Settle for 95/99% and ship it

Call your local gun shop. Drop it off and let them ship it however they want to ship it.

Due to lost packages and delays I would not even consider usps

If you’ve got gun insurance ask them which carrier they give the best payout on

 

[Bret]

So Fedex only ships between licensed dealers. That's clear enough and a subtle point that while "we" can ship firearms through Fedex, "we" means "going through an FFL licensee who is actually shipping". And I don't have an FFL.

I literally quoted straight from their website it in the thread above your post. Here it is again.

2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

 

[zipakna]

the has been covered by Sam at Practical Solutions.. you Ship Using USPS, INSURED.

https://macmachineguns.com/?page_id=1261

 

[b_saan]

Let's be honest here, carrier insurance is a crapshoot and even if they pay out it may take months or they may not pay full value. Having your own insurance that covers incoming and outgoing shipments is the only way to be sure you're covered when shipping or receiving firearms.