Former Israeli soldier speaks about the Galil

[riderboy]

From another forum and with his permission, I'd like to post his very interesting real life experience with the Galil as an israeli soldier.
He's remarks were in response to a question I had asked about my Galil ARM.

If you want to make it more of an IDF styled weapon, I would do the following:

- remove the carrying handle, never, ever, did I see a handle in service;

- remove the bipod, which was PITA in basic when we had to have them. They would open at the wrong time - like during a run or march. Eventually, we all put some sort of "shimmy" between the legs where the meet at the top of triangle to secure them in place. A stripped cigarette butt works well.

- replace the wooden fore-end furniture with a plastic fore-end from a Glilion (which obviously may not be possible).

Never experienced any reliability problems, and the weight was never a problem for me (although, I did not really know any better at the time either).

I always preferred the Galil to the M16, as the latter seemed flimsy to me. Also, guys who had M16 (the DM and M203), always seemed to be having issues with theirs. Similarly field *****ping and re-assembling the Galil was very easy; no little pins to lose.

I was no marksmen (and still am not), so Galil accuracy issues were not a big deal to me. Although, almost all agreed that the M16 was superior in that regard.

All that said, I have more field experience with a MAG then a Galil.

 

[Sidewinder]

Thanks for posting, riderboy. It's insightful to learn boots on the ground observations about service weapons. His perception of the M-16 is telling.

 

[Mr Folgers]

- remove the carrying handle, never, ever, did I see a handle in service;

- remove the bipod, which was PITA in basic when we had to have them. They would open at the wrong time - like during a run or march. Eventually, we all put some sort of "shimmy" between the legs where the meet at the top of triangle to secure them in place. A stripped cigarette butt works well.

- replace the wooden fore-end furniture with a plastic fore-end from a Glilion (which obviously may not be possible).

Evidence seems to go against all these.
I have a number of pictures of soldiers in the field both with and without carry handles, and only one or two (recent) photographs of ARMs without wooden handguards. Also, only in recent photos have I seen the bipods removed.

 

[riderboy]

Evidence seems to go against all these.
I have a number of pictures of soldiers in the field both with and without carry handles, and only one or two (recent) photographs of ARMs without wooden handguards. Also, only in recent photos have I seen the bipods removed.

Yes, I've seen some as well. I think it may just boil down to individual preferences/experiences, perhaps even differences amongst the professionals and the draftees. Interesting observations though. I've thought about doing what this gentleman suggested with my ARM. I have a railed gas tube and top cover with an ACOG and laser, and it adds a fair amount of weight. By ditching the carry handle, bipod and the railed gas tube (which is solid and quite heavy - for a gas tube) I thought I might be able to lighten things up a bit.

 

[Mr Folgers]

Yes, I've seen some as well. I think it may just boil down to individual preferences/experiences, perhaps even differences amongst the professionals and the draftees. Interesting observations though. I've thought about doing what this gentleman suggested with my ARM. I have a railed gas tube and top cover with an ACOG and laser, and it adds a fair amount of weight. By ditching the carry handle, bipod and the railed gas tube (which is solid and quite heavy - for a gas tube) I thought I might be able to lighten things up a bit.

It's an interesting setup.
If I were the lucky one in this case, I'd keep it all original parts. Maybe swap out the handguards and bipod to make an AR.
All the new red-dots and rails and gizmos just aren't my thing. Glad she is holding together for you

Here's a few pics of Galils in-field...

 

[lcastillo]

Riderboy,

That makes sense to me how each soldier has a preference how to set up his weapon. Here is a picture that is on Wikipedia's Galil Rifle page circa July 2000 at a IDF's field training week. You can see the handle has been removed and the rear handguard retainer even looks like it has been replaced by a South African R4 rear handguard retainer. It also has a plastic handguard vs. wooden handguard.

This picture is perhaps on of my favorite Galil pictures with the desert in the back ground. I was inspired by this picture to convert my Golani to look just like this rifle. Thanks for posting. Lou

 

[lcastillo]

Riderboy,

By the way marvelous rifle man! You are one lucky guy with a Full Auto Galil ARM!..

Can you tell me about you railed top cover? Where did you get it? How well does it hold to zero?

 

[dubagel]

That photo appears to be a 2000ish or later Galil ARM. In addition to the plastic forearm. Interesting note, on the two older file photos above, the ARM appears to be lacking the bayonet lug on the gas block front. I never noticed that before in those pics.

 

[Mr Folgers]

That photo appears to be a 2000ish or later Galil ARM. In addition to the plastic forearm. Interesting note, on the two older file photos above, the ARM appears to be lacking the bayonet lug on the gas block front. I never noticed that before in those pics.

The original IDF Galils never had bayonet lugs.
Export versions had them pinned to the barrel.
My assumption is that the IDF did not believe in using bayonets in combat. Hand-to-hand fighting was taught with Krav Maga, which also includes dealing with bayonets. Their logic is likely that the soldier with a bayonet on a 10lb, 3 1/2 foot steel weapon is more likely a liability to the soldier than a defensive measure. Also, with the small size of the IDF, they are unlike to attempt Bayonet charges like the Russians

Mounts for bayonets were only added when IMI updated their gas blocks to the "T" or Type 2 variations, where they were integrated into the casting.

 

[riderboy]

Riderboy,

By the way marvelous rifle man! You are one lucky guy with a Full Auto Galil ARM!..

Can you tell me about you railed top cover? Where did you get it? How well does it hold to zero?

Tenngalil made that, I had to trim back some of the right side to accomodate the charging handle, and trim back a bit of the rear sight to accomodate the ACOG mount.
It seems to hold zero as well as the rear sight. The topcover is pretty solid. On full auto, of course, it just directs the bullet hose a little better. The railed gas tube is quite heavy, the rail running the full length of the tube. My thoughts are to go with the FAB railed fore end, add a grippod to the bottom rail if I want, and try to lighten things up a bit. The IR laser with the PVS-14 NVD is freaking awesome.

 

[lcastillo]

Tenngalil made that, I had to trim back some of the left side to accomodate the charging handle, and trim back a bit of the rear sight to accomodate the ACOG mount.
It seems to hold zero as well as the rear sight. The topcover is pretty solid. On full auto, of course, it just directs the bullet hose a little better. The railed gas tube is quite heavy, the rail running the full length of the tube. My thoughts are to go with the FAB railed fore end, add a grippod to the bottom rail if I want, and try to lighten things up a bit. The IR laser with the PVS-14 NVD is freaking awesome.

I will have to say Tenngalil has a gift when it comes to Galil's and creativity. We are lucky to have someone that is not afraid to create new products to our specifications. That being said, I am sending Jeff some M-249 SAW stocks to see if they can be retrofitted to Galil knuckles. He actually is the one that gave me the idea. They are pretty close in size and I think they would look cool. Here are some pictures

 

[lcastillo]

Tenngalil made that, I had to trim back some of the left side to accomodate the charging handle, and trim back a bit of the rear sight to accomodate the ACOG mount.
It seems to hold zero as well as the rear sight. The topcover is pretty solid. On full auto, of course, it just directs the bullet hose a little better. The railed gas tube is quite heavy, the rail running the full length of the tube. My thoughts are to go with the FAB railed fore end, add a grippod to the bottom rail if I want, and try to lighten things up a bit. The IR laser with the PVS-14 NVD is freaking awesome.

Oh the IR laser and the FAB railed fore end are great. I like your thinking

 

[lcastillo]

The original IDF Galils never had bayonet lugs.
Export versions had them pinned to the barrel.
My assumption is that the IDF did not believe in using bayonets in combat. Hand-to-hand fighting was taught with Krav Maga, which also includes dealing with bayonets. Their logic is likely that the soldier with a bayonet on a 10lb, 3 1/2 foot steel weapon is more likely a liability to the soldier than a defensive measure. Also, with the small size of the IDF, they are unlike to attempt Bayonet charges like the Russians

Mounts for bayonets were only added when IMI updated their gas blocks to the "T" or Type 2 variations, where they were integrated into the casting.

Agreed. Here is pictures of my latest purchase of a ARM gas block with the "T" stamp. The seller told me that this gas block and barrel (IMI 1-7 twist, chrome lined) came on a ARM parts kit from Blackthorne. He added that the folding stock was the poly with rubber end similar to the INDUMIL manufactured type.

 

[riderboy]

I like the SAW stock idea Lou, looks pretty cool. Is that a sling attachment point on the top rear of the stock? And is it any lighter than the original IMI stock?

 

[RM308]

I will have to say Tenngalil has a gift when it comes to Galil's and creativity. We are lucky to have someone that is not afraid to create new products to our specifications. That being said, I am sending Jeff some M-249 SAW stocks to see if they can be retrofitted to Galil knuckles. He actually is the one that gave me the idea. They are pretty close in size and I think they would look cool. Here are some pictures

I looked at doing that as well, but I found that the center-to-center of the tubes was different, but if anyone can do it, Jeff can. But I predict there will be "much cursing along the way"

 

[tcallre]

Thanks for posting that. These days we tend to hear a lot of IDF negative stories concerning the Galil and it's great to hear from someone who appreciated the positive aspects of our beloved rifle. Yes, she is a overweight, but there's so many plusses in the design and it's sad that the Galil had such a short service life as the main rifle for the IDF. Thank's again.

 

[lcastillo]

I like the SAW stock idea Lou, looks pretty cool. Is that a sling attachment point on the top rear of the stock? And is it any lighter than the original IMI stock?

Riderboy, Yes the ring on the top of the stock is a sling attachment point. Roughly from what I can tell the stock weighs in close to the original Galil stock. The SAW stock has an alloy knuckle where the Galil has the steel knuckle that is heavier.

 

[lcastillo]

I looked at doing that as well, but I found that the center-to-center of the tubes was different, but if anyone can do it, Jeff can. But I predict there will be "much cursing along the way"

Haha I believe the cursing part is true I let you guys know if Jeff finds a way to make it work.

 

[Sidewinder]

I know little about the Israeli military and its stance on personal preferences regarding weapon parts, but another reason for some variances in Galil fixtures, such as ditching wooden handguards and bipods, could be that some Israeli commanders (but we know not all) gave their troops no wiggle room in making changes, even small ones, to their weapons. Anyone have a definitive answer on the question of personal preferences regarding changes to small arms in the Israeli armed forces? Riderboy has spawned an interesting question on personal choices for soldiers and their weapons and how that concept may differ among nations.

 

[riderboy]

I know little about the Israeli military and its stance on personal preferences regarding weapon parts, but another reason for some variances in Galil fixtures, such as ditching wooden handguards and bipods, could be that some Israeli commanders (but we know not all) gave their troops no wiggle room in making changes, even small ones, to their weapons. Anyone have a definitive answer on the question of personal preferences regarding changes to small arms in the Israeli armed forces? Riderboy has spawned an interesting question on personal choices for soldiers and their weapons and how that concept may differ among nations.

Great points, I know that I would sure be tempted to "customize" my gear if I was a soldier. I had never heard of IDF soldiers doing that to their Galils either, but it makes a certain amount of sense in terms of the weight of the rifle and the PITA factor of snagging a carry handle or having a bipod pop out of place at an awkward moment. I went ahead and took the railed gas tube, carry handle, bipod and wood handguard off and put on a FAB railed front end. Everything has a QD mount so I can add and subtract things quickly if I want, using only what I want. I still like the "look" of the traditional ARM better.