From dealer sample to transferable

[hkg3k]

Similar situation to regular firearms banned by the GCA. The Walther TPH for example is too small to be imported but they can be imported and purchased by LE as like most laws this also includes the "except for us" clause. Once here, they can be sold like any other gun, the only restriction in the law is the purpose of the import must be LE sales.

IIRC, the same thing applied to 89 Ban "assault weapons." I remember specifically the post-89 "Black AUGs" that came in directly to police departments and legally found their way into collector's hands from there.

 

[Hiller]

I’m able to add previous pre may machine guns to form 4’s.
An m2 carbine, bar and an Uzi to form 4’s.
Is this really possible? Also sent signed letter to the atf. We’ll see???


R/s, Hiller……….

 

[gorillastomp]

Curious does anyone have several Pre-mays that could check if only some are now transferable by adding them to a eform 4. The reason I ask. I wonder if they are letting all pre-may guns to be added to a form4. But then denying after the form is submitted. Call me skeptical but…. I just don’t see the ATF taking the time to do the research to see if each gun listed as a pre-may qualifies.
They have a great track record on helping out citizens and such.

 

[K2]

Hi Stomp,

On other treads on this subject dealers have some firearms that have kept their Pre-sample status and some that can populate and eForm4. In one case, they were the same model but only certain ones of that model were allowed on an eForm4.

Enjoy,
K2

 

[gorillastomp]

Hi Stomp,

On other treads on this subject dealers have some firearms that have kept their Pre-sample status and some that can populate and eForm4. In one case, they were the same model but only certain ones of that model were allowed on an eForm4.

Enjoy,
K2

This is crazy stuff. I would never have guessed they would go in and research each gun. I guess time will tell if they stay on the transferable list.

 

[Hiller]

Curious does anyone have several Pre-mays that could check if only some are now transferable by adding them to a eform 4. The reason I ask. I wonder if they are letting all pre-may guns to be added to a form4. But then denying after the form is submitted. Call me skeptical but…. I just don’t see the ATF taking the time to do the research to see if each gun listed as a pre-may qualifies.
They have a great track record on helping out citizens and such.

Some of my pre may guns can be put on form 4. Some say “pre may sample “ and can’t be loaded to a form 4.


R/s, Hiller……..

 

[A&S Conversions]

It is my understanding that it all has to do with the status of why the machinegun was imported. If imported for a Government Agency, then after the government has transferred the gun into the market, those guns would be no longer considered Pre May Samples, according to this new ruling. If the machinegun was imported into the US after the Gun Control Act of '68 and May 19th 1986, but was not registered to a government agency, then that gun would still be considered a Pre May Sample because it was not imported for government agency use. It was imported as a Dealer's Sample, then it would remain a Dealer's Sample.

Scott

 

[Chef]

Are there any M249 pre samples out there? How about Russian PK or PKS?

I have seen some pre-sample M249s for sale from time to time. But I've never seen a pre-sample PK or PKS.

Considering that the pre-sample M249s I saw were in the $50k range just a couple of years ago, if they become transferable I'd suspect them to climb to over $100k easily as transferables.

 

[brenbuilds]

Allegedly, there is at least one transferable PK machine gun in the registry. I have heard of a few pre-sample PKM's existing, but never seen one. I don't imagine this group of 4,000 firearms would contain many, if any belt fed MG's. I suspect it is prevailingly sub-machine guns such as MP5's, UZI's, Walther MPL, Madsen M50's, Beretta M12, etc.

 

[ericthered]

Didnt a transferable m249 sell at Morphys at the end of last year or so? I think Ian did a video on it because it was so stinkin' expensive. Would be nice if more were added. Strange things happen, but it would be a rare/strange thing for a police force to have a belt fed. Speaking of feds, they dont sell their presamples, so the agencys that have them probably arent doing anyone any good.
It would be super cool if MPLs and MPKs get added.

 

[sweersa]

I’ll be happy when it’s in writing and validated by the ATF. I’ve asked on other forums and no one can explain how going to a PD for 2 years negates the 1968 GCA law which states what an imported MG can and can not be used for? Even if it went to a PD, it’s still an MG that was imported after the 68 cut off and there for isn’t able to be owned by civilians, yet now they are? No one can show me in the 1968 GCA law where this is written or in the months leading up to this Morphy’s auction where the written ATF proof is. All we hear is blowhard “this is happening” and “your just paranoid” from people at the NFATCA but their website says nothing about it still.

I understand where you are coming from. However, if you look at the law and their definitions, an AR lower doesn’t fit the defined term for what a receiver is. Some savvy suspects have gotten off because of this. The AFT still regulates them as receivers, in addition to many, many other parts they view and treat as receivers that are missing a few attributes or features to actually fit the definition of a receiver under federal law.
In short, my point is the AFT is flexible (both ways) in how they interpret or in some cases ignore the actual law.

 

[Chef]

Speaking of feds, they dont sell their presamples, so the agencys that have them probably arent doing anyone any good.

That's quite a large blanket statement to make.
By "feds", do you just mean agencies like the FBI or DEA? Or do you also include state and local PD departments?

 

[ericthered]

That's quite a large blanket statement to make.
By "feds", do you just mean agencies like the FBI or DEA? Or do you also include state and local PD departments?

Sorry, didn't think it was a blanket statement. I said " fed" as a abbreviation for federal, referring to to agencies directly controlled by the federal government. Such as the FBI, DEA etcetera. State police are under the jurisdiction of the state governor. I believe the local PD is under the jurisdiction of the local Sheriffs office, which is under the Sheriff. My comment was that state police, city police, and sheriff offices are the ones that are the ones these guns were imported for/by. The FbI and DEA most certainly have some very awesome imports, but they will just as surely be left to moulder in a basement somewhere.

 

[slimshady]

Fed agencies are exempt from the NFA, while state and lower .gov purchases are tax exempt they still have to register and transfer them like us mere mortals. As they are unregistered and there is no mechanism besides a form 10 to register them now all a fed agency can do is transfer them to other .gov entities or destroy them.

 

[Chef]

Sorry, didn't think it was a blanket statement. I said " fed" as a abbreviation for federal, referring to to agencies directly controlled by the federal government. Such as the FBI, DEA etcetera. State police are under the jurisdiction of the state governor. I believe the local PD is under the jurisdiction of the local Sheriffs office, which is under the Sheriff. My comment was that state police, city police, and sheriff offices are the ones that are the ones these guns were imported for/by. The FbI and DEA most certainly have some very awesome imports, but they will just as surely be left to moulder in a basement somewhere.

I would guess that you're probably correct.
All the guns the federal agencies own will most likely be destroyed. They don't even release common handguns to the public.

 

[Villafuego]

Fed agencies are exempt from the NFA, while state and lower .gov purchases are tax exempt they still have to register and transfer them like us mere mortals. As they are unregistered and there is no mechanism besides a form 10 to register them now all a fed agency can do is transfer them to other .gov entities or destroy them.

Yep ....
Right now a savvy individual/dealer should be reaching out to Law Enforcement Agencies and searching for their now "transferable" firearms .....
I would venture to guess a large number of those 4,000 guns are still in their possession

 

[ferndog1]

Are there any M249 pre samples out there? How about Russian PK or PKS?

I have a Pre-May Chinese stamped receiver Type 56 that is showing up as transferable. But not getting too exited yet...

 

[K2]

Hi All,

IMHO, I think a letter from BATF is going to be the deciding factor on the status of the NFA firearms. I've watched the forums and the percentage of "new transferable" identified by the "eForm4 Test" seems to be a great proportion of what were pre-samples. If it were 4000 of the 17,000 presamples, one might expect somewhere in a 1-in-4 firearms changing to transferable.

Just an observation. I've no information other than what I've read on the boards.

YMMV,

K2