Gauging Interest in Tungsten Slow Fire Bolts

Hey

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Think you can get it to 900 rpm or so with the right spring and buffers in an m11/9?
I wanted to smooth the red dot zig-zag so I sped mine up by cutting only 4 coils off a new m11/9 spring which got me 852rpm with 115grn Blazer.

Starting with a new spring it wouldn’t run. We cut 4 to start and it ran great and we stopped right there, cutting any more would slow it down progressively..
 

A&S Conversions

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I wanted to smooth the red dot zig-zag so I sped mine up by cutting only 4 coils off a new m11/9 spring which got me 852rpm with 115grn Blazer.

Starting with a new spring it wouldn’t run. We cut 4 to start and it ran great and we stopped right there, cutting any more would slow it down progressively..
What if you tried a full size spring that was already broken in? Wouldn’t the “new” cut down spring slow down after break in? I get “because I can”. So is “because I can” the point or is there something else?Yes that is slower than the steel bolt. As I recall, Tom got the M11/NINE to run down below 500 RPM, because he could.

I miss Tom. I think about him often. I know he would be proud that Sam and Tina were able to pick up the torch with this project. Bringing the tungsten bolts to market was a labor of love for Tom.

Scott
 

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^ Some back story, I already had the early gen1 that had the cube grafted onto the steel bolt. That ran around 750rpm even though bolt velocity wasn’t high (brass wasn‘t ejected far) the bolt hit the backplate which would make one handed shooting difficult as the gun would pitch upward.

A friend owned both the full tungsten and all A bolts made up to that point. The full tungsten was purposely set up slow probably around 600rpm but I found it so choppy I didn’t want to spend more than 2 magazines checking it out.

The A bolt was set up slow (don’t remember rpm) but of all the bolts it was Goldilocks. In the future I was offered to purchase that bolt and I knew I wanted it faster/smoother…. so just went about it methodically with a new spring. When we cut 4 coils and it ran 852rpm and was reliable I stopped there.

With that all said, in regards to your question if a new spring was used a while, would it have slowed down? Perhaps, but it couldn’t cycle the 2nd round so it would never become a used spring at that rate 😝. So the end result with 4 coils cut, if it ran slower after that being used I couldn’t tell, wouldn’t have been by much.

Sold that bolt and m11/9 and now have a .380a1 converted to 9mm with an A bolt so it’s a whole different animal. Right now set up fast as possible (strong spring to protect backplate welds) around 1250rpm. It’s 100% reliable and feels great to shoot. Leaving it alone.
 

A&S Conversions

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As I recall the original A bolt in the large magwell M11A1 ran around that 800-850 RPM with Tom’s supplied spring. I will agree that it is smooth, I was unable to pull singles. Subgun matches are something that I really enjoy. I find having a ability to pull singles easily, really helps me to shoot stages.

There is a monthly subgun match in Las Vegas. I would go with Tom and the other locals. Quite often there would be two or three shooting positions. There was also a tendency to have one or two of the shooting positions to have 17 to 19 knock down targets. If you could only manage doubles, then you would have to change mags standing in front of targets that need to be neutralized. If you couldn’t pull singles, it would be very difficult to get near the lowest times in such a stage without being able to pull singles consistently. I am not capable of pulling singles at that cyclic rate. I am glad to hear that cyclic rate makes you happy.

Scott
 
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Mackjack

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I wanted to smooth the red dot zig-zag so I sped mine up by cutting only 4 coils off a new m11/9 spring which got me 852rpm with 115grn Blazer.

Starting with a new spring it wouldn’t run. We cut 4 to start and it ran great and we stopped right there, cutting any more would slow it down progressively..
This was done in an m11/9 or m11/9a1? Thanks
 

Mackjack

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Thank you. That’s the speed I’d like to it, and for the same reasons. I have a full size tungsten bolt and it’s cool and all… but just too slow and choppy sometimes. Want to hit the middle ground between 600 and 1200 roughly
 
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Hey

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Thank you. That’s the speed I’d like to it, and for the same reasons. I have a full size tungsten bolt and it’s cool and all… but just too slow and choppy sometimes. Want to hit the middle ground between 600 and 1200 roughly
The longer the spring the faster it will be. Research the “paperclip mod” (I’m sure you know, I mention for those that are new) so it’s easy to clip coils at the range, and once satisfied you can put in the factory 1/16” roll pin back at home when settled on the speed.

I caution leaving the paper clip vs the roll pin because I’ve had the paper clip left that way come apart later jamming the bolt hopelessly. It required tools not typically available at the range to remedy the issue. That was using a heavy gauge paperclip, not the small. Guess the bolt slamming forward on an empty chamber nicked enough over time with the way it was bent to shave it into failure.

Lesson learned? The paperclip mod is for test days only.
 

MACsAlot

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As promised here's the test run of the PS-W bolt in a large mag well 380 gun shooting 115 grain 9mm ammo. The shot meter registered 988. I hope everyone has a great holiday week.

See video here

t
 

SecondAmend

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Nice! I got 967 RPM. Are there plans to test 380 ammo?
In Sept., 2021, I tested the M11-380 size version of W bolt in my small magwell M11-380 and measured an ROF of 735 RPM using 90 gr. FMJ .380 ACP ammo. The steel bolt ROF was too fast for my timer to capture as the timer has a 1600 RPM upper limit.
 

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In Sept., 2021, I tested the M11-380 size version of W bolt in my small magwell M11-380 and measured an ROF of 735 RPM using 90 gr. FMJ .380 ACP ammo. The steel bolt ROF was too fast for my timer to capture as the timer has a 1600 RPM upper limit.
^ I clocked my stock .380 at 1810rpm.
 

Hey

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Last weekend at a friend’s place we were cutting spring coils on my .380 converted to 9mm using a cfw bolt.

The goal was to have it sound exactly like an open bolt mini Uzi. I think we succeeded in that.

While looking for a new spring to begin with, we stumbled upon this relic of the past from Vegas SMG. A hand written note to my friend during the early A-bolt days.

Thought you guys would want to see. I can almost hear him saying the words.
IMG_0733.png

Here’s an unmodified orange spring on top for reference
IMG_0734.png

Closeup
IMG_0735.png
 

Hey

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^ to get the sound I wanted we cut probably 1/3 off a new spring. When placed onto the recoil rod the spring extended roughly an inch past the end of the rod. Quite short, gun sounds pretty good and controllable (torso accurate, need practice for a softball size target). Sorry no videos, next time.

And Tom’s note with spring was put up separate from all others to be kept as a momento.
 

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