Glock Grip Conversion
- Thread starter smec_289
- Start date
... and left side of the same https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/169738/DSC05866-355775.JPG
there is an old thread on this http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?53605-Shockwave-Glock-grip-adaptor-for-M11 that references a Len Savage; was this all his work?
there is an old thread on this http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?53605-Shockwave-Glock-grip-adaptor-for-M11 that references a Len Savage; was this all his work?
I had not seen this one. They did a good job.
I remember a few members here who were working on plans for interchangeable grips. I would eventually like to have that done to my M11A1 to use the small and large metal grips for 380/9x19/ 22LR, Glock and AR/AK grips for the rifle calibers.
If there is progress on the interchangeable grips, I hope the members post.
I remember a few members here who were working on plans for interchangeable grips. I would eventually like to have that done to my M11A1 to use the small and large metal grips for 380/9x19/ 22LR, Glock and AR/AK grips for the rifle calibers.
If there is progress on the interchangeable grips, I hope the members post.
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A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
The grip/magwell is a frame of an aftermarket company that made Glock frames from stainless steel. They have long since gone out of business. It is my understanding that such a conversion was expensive and not exactly easy. Especially when the steel Glock frames were expensive and the market value of the Mac style RRs were half to 1/3 of what they are today.
It would seem to me that someone would make a modular grip/magwell system. The receiver would need to be modified. But once it was modified, wouldn't it be cool to go from a large frame grip to a small frame grip, to a Glock frame grip, to a HK style or AR grip for a Max 31 or Tenko? A slide on grip/magwell modification to the receiver and the grip/magwell could be 3D printed. Just a thought.
Scott
ETA My brother was working on getting a Masterpiece Arms aluminum Glock grip/magwell adapted to his M11/NINE. I will have to quiz him of whether he actually got it done.
It would seem to me that someone would make a modular grip/magwell system. The receiver would need to be modified. But once it was modified, wouldn't it be cool to go from a large frame grip to a small frame grip, to a Glock frame grip, to a HK style or AR grip for a Max 31 or Tenko? A slide on grip/magwell modification to the receiver and the grip/magwell could be 3D printed. Just a thought.
Scott
ETA My brother was working on getting a Masterpiece Arms aluminum Glock grip/magwell adapted to his M11/NINE. I will have to quiz him of whether he actually got it done.
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Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
Before going down this path, I would suggest thinking about how you hold a subgun vs a pistol.
Make a fist, and extend your hand out straight forward and back to your chest a couple of times back and forth. You will notice at full extension the top of your fist is angled at roughly the same rake as a glock grip. You will conversely notice, that as you bring that fist back towards your chest the angle moves to either vertical or negative. At about a foot away from your chest your hand is probably neutral, or vertical, which is why most subgun grips are vertical including all macs.
If you did an M11 and shot it one handed at full extension like one does a pistol, like the one Len Savage did above it's totally awesome. Basically a full auto pistol that is obtainable.
Otherwise, when shooting with a stock it would be an uncomfortable grip angle. This is also the problem with a forward glock magwell, as it rakes back, and with a 33rd mag this angle can get in the way of shooting ergonomics.
Make a fist, and extend your hand out straight forward and back to your chest a couple of times back and forth. You will notice at full extension the top of your fist is angled at roughly the same rake as a glock grip. You will conversely notice, that as you bring that fist back towards your chest the angle moves to either vertical or negative. At about a foot away from your chest your hand is probably neutral, or vertical, which is why most subgun grips are vertical including all macs.
If you did an M11 and shot it one handed at full extension like one does a pistol, like the one Len Savage did above it's totally awesome. Basically a full auto pistol that is obtainable.
Otherwise, when shooting with a stock it would be an uncomfortable grip angle. This is also the problem with a forward glock magwell, as it rakes back, and with a 33rd mag this angle can get in the way of shooting ergonomics.
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about a foot away from your chest your hand is probably neutral, or vertical, which is why most subgun grips are vertical including all macs.
I wouldn’t say that’s why they are straight. It’s just how they made them
With the mag going through the grip. But logistically you are correct on the angles. That’s why ar15 grips have slowly changed to more vertical because that’s how you actually hold an m4 vs a rifle
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
You certainly have the right to your opinion. Mine is different. At least that I am aware, the subguns that I can think of that don't have the magazines in the grip, all have an angled grip where the trigger is located. Some grips are more vertical than others, but none that I can think of have a grip 90 degrees from the bore. The WW II guns, like the Thompson, Grease Gun, MP 38/40. All have angled grips where the trigger is. Modern subguns, MP5 (all models), UMP, and Scorpion all have angled grips where the trigger is. The M16 as it comes from the factory has an angled grip. For a short compact stock a more vertical grip where the trigger is, for some shooters seems to be better than the standard. But even those aftermarket AR grips that are more vertical are not 90 degrees.
The original magazines that were used in the original guns were modified magazines from preexisting subguns that had separate vertical magwells. It is much cheaper to modify and off the shelf magazine than to design a new one. The M10 was the first. The Grease Gun in .45 ACP and the 9mm Walther MPC in 9mm magazines where designed for separate vertical magwells. So the MAC M10 grip/magwell had to be vertical for the adapted magazines to function. MAC did add the plastic grip piece on the back of the vertical magwell. That piece is angled to fit the hand better.
Other than a MP7, name for me a modern subgun that has a vertical grip? Because the MP7 feeds from the grip/magwell, it must be vertical to feed the 4.6 mm cartridge from the grip/magwell. Again I appreciate that we have a different opinion. But I just don't see how a vertical grip where the trigger is located is more ergonomic than an angled grip. Certainly some grips are more angled than others but the available designs don't seem to use a vertical grip/magwell unless a vertical grip/magwell is needed to feed cartridges through the grip/magwell. YMMV.
Scott
You just made my point. Thanks
about a foot away from your chest your hand is probably neutral, or vertical, which is why most subgun grips are vertical including all macs.
You just said above that the reason subguns have vertical grips is due to ergonomics. I said that’s not true necessarily. And yes you latest post is correct: more modern designs have angled grips (and those guns don’t use pistol grip magwells either).
The REASON they have vertical grips isn’t because ergonomics. As I said.
about a foot away from your chest your hand is probably neutral, or vertical, which is why most subgun grips are vertical including all macs.
You just said above that the reason subguns have vertical grips is due to ergonomics. I said that’s not true necessarily. And yes you latest post is correct: more modern designs have angled grips (and those guns don’t use pistol grip magwells either).
The REASON they have vertical grips isn’t because ergonomics. As I said.
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Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
Scott, you asked for modern subguns with a vertical grip fed design. The TP9 comes to mind, but I'm not trying to prove a point. When I hold a glock about 8-12in off my chest where a subgun grip is it feels a bit cramped to me, but if one likes those ergos it might be a good plan for them.
If you read the old threads from Marty who founded Shockwave you'll see he started out working on a glock magwell and refocused his attention on making the zmag instead.
If you read the old threads from Marty who founded Shockwave you'll see he started out working on a glock magwell and refocused his attention on making the zmag instead.
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Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
MPA finally released it.
https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/defender-dmg-grip-assembly-glock-mag-compatible/
Anyone up for the chop?
https://masterpiecearms.com/shop/defender-dmg-grip-assembly-glock-mag-compatible/
Anyone up for the chop?
What would the interfacing rail be since you cant direct weld? I still think it would be a great option and I expect to see it someday. Another option would be to go the bullpup route whereas the old magwell/grip forms the forward part of the buttstock and the new grip is relocated up under the rail (likely as a standard AR mount that mounts to the rail). Tigger linkage could be done mechanically or more easily with a simple electrical switch and solenoid. Would make for a lot better trigger feel also over a linkage rod. Electrical control of the original trigger and rail mounting of the new grip would also allow for variable LOP which would be kind of nice. An 11/15 would be the ideal starting point. Just a thought.
The description says it is for the aluminum lowers and specifically not for the steel lowers. I bought one for the steel lowers 3 years ago, but I had to call them. It looks like the one pictured, so I’m not sure what the differences are.
I haven’t done anything with it. I think I’d rather have one fabricated from sheet steel and welded on like the stock grip.
Gaujo
UZI Talk Supporter
There is no other metal Glock grip I'm aware of. It's interesting for multiple reasons.
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