How Ingram is your gun?

[Gaujo]

I finished the Mac-Man book, and there are only a few pages devoted to the two .380 variants of the Ingram series, but I wanted to shed some light on them and share my general understanding of these guns we call "MACs". Most of you will know most or all of this, but I wanted to share for anyone who is new, or looking for a short summary.

Here are the guns Ingram actually designed
M-10 (in 9mm and 45)

M-11 (in .380, and with a smaller grip and mag)

In my eyes, people know of the M-10, and they think they know the M-11. In reality, most people are actually talking about the SWD M-11/9 when they say M-11. The gun people think of as the "M-11" was never made by the MAC company at all, and wasn't designed by Mr. Ingram.

The real M-11 (the pistol sized .380 version with the smaller grip) was designed by Ingram, made by the MAC company, and it is clear from the narrative of the book that it was very important in the company's history. This was the gun the salesman would actually shoot in a hotel room into phone books while he was demoing the product for potential clients.

The M-11(/9) that is so common, is actually a bastardization of the M-11, and Ingram did not design it. SWD extended the back end of the M-11 design to facilitate the extra bolt travel needed for 9mm, and this is where the SWD M-11/9 came from.

About the same time, they took the M-11 design, swapped the magwell over to standard 9mm dimensions, and called it the M11/A1. It was otherwise unmolested from Ingram's design, but for the mag well / grip change, and the stupid name. If it were up to me, they would have called the new 9mm a M-11/9, and let the M-11 continue as the .380 version. As it is, it's hyper confusing with all the dashes, slashes and so on.

SO, if you want to shoot an Ingram design "MAC" series weapon, these are your choices in order of how much control Ingram had over the design (least to most):

M-10
M-11
M11-A1 (only a grip / magazine change)

M-11/9 (significant departure from Ingram design, and my understanding is he did not get royalties for it)

 

[Gaujo]

I really wish there was a picture of them all in succession. Does anyone have one?

 

[American180]

Good Info, Thanks.

 

[HK45]

I'm an old fashioned traditionalist, and I own two unmodified, original Powder Springs M-10's in 45acp.
That's about as "Ingram" as you can get.

 

[Junkcollector]

Maybe correction on M 11-A1 I have a M11-A1 with the small magwell Marked
s M11-A1. Cal 380 SAP (upside down making spelling PAS) 38078XX
RPB INDUSTRIES. INC.
ATLANTA, GA. U.S.A.

 

[timkel]

Ingram M10 45acp
powder springs
All original as God intended.

 

[Vegas SMG]

There are also late production, full auto RPBs marked M-11-A1.

Additionally many SWD M-11A1s have the small magwells. There were only 1,062 SWD M-11-A1s manufactured. My 1985 SWD M-11-A1 is in the 85 38008xx serial number range and shares the same magwell as the M-11/9.

Ingram M10 45acp
powder springs
All original as God intended.

Mine too except for using a PS mini a Uzi side folder. Sacrilege?

 

[104timberwolf]

I'm an old fashioned traditionalist, and I own two unmodified, original Powder Springs M-10's in 45acp.
That's about as "Ingram" as you can get.

I did swap out the mag catch in order to use stock grease gun magazines.

 

[LawBob]

and do we say, "so..." or "who cares?"

 

[104timberwolf]

and do we say, "so..." or "who cares?"

Select one. Then go participate in a thread that might interest you more.

 

[HK45]

and do we say, "so..." or "who cares?"

You should say, "I'm impressed"!

 

[softaildeluxe]

and do we say, "so..." or "who cares?"

We say thank you for a well written collection of "fun facts".

 

[LawBob]

How about regurgitation:

http://www.atomiclabrat.com/MAC Pages for Atomic Lab Rat.com/1-MAC-10 Trivia.htm

 

[104timberwolf]

Thanks Bob. Just can't get enough stock Powder Springs M-10. Or cowbell.

 

[Hughjimbissel]

Gordon Ingram was the classic talented sucker. He should have gotten rich off of his designs but really never made all that much from them. Of all the "clones", SWD was about the only mfgr that ever sent him any royalty checks. I suppose the early PS guns have some collectability for some folks but beyond that...shoot 'em and enjoy 'em. Come on! It is an open bolt sub gun that has all the charm of a steel cigar box!

 

[Gaujo]

and do we say, "so..." or "who cares?"

Personally, I read that and say, "Goodness, Ingram got screwed, pity, he was the man". But. I suppose some people read that and feel it speaks to the relative quality of their m11/9, which it really doesn't, because they have obviously stood the test of time.

 

[Gaujo]

Maybe correction on M 11-A1 I have a M11-A1 with the small magwell Marked
s M11-A1. Cal 380 SAP (upside down making spelling PAS) 38078XX
RPB INDUSTRIES. INC.
ATLANTA, GA. U.S.A.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks like an m-11 that would have been made by MAC, bought at auction as a flat or receiver, stamped as a single fire maybe as well?

If it's small magwell, my understanding is the receiver flat was made by MAC, regardless of who formed or stamped it.

 

[Nickel Plated]

Thanks for that. I just kinda got into the whole Ingram platform and have been a bit perplexed by the different variants. Namely the difference between a regular M11/380 and an A1.

So the A1 still fires .380 but feeds it from a 9mm mag through a 9mm magwell?
Where do the M12s fit in this. Are they the little Mini-Mac versions of the .380 where the front of the receiver stops right at the trigger guard?

 

[LawBob]

Isn't m12 semi ?

 

[attherange]

I don't know….I love the platform, but like many went the other way. I have a RPB sap HTA conversion, then started tinkering around with it. Uzi conversion is key IMO. Hope to show off the new stuff at the Creek in April.