How to tell if m16 is NIB

[USSarizona]

Thanks for the observations guys. To clarify, I do want to know if all parts are original, furniture included. My rationale is just as dgleavitt stated:

...if he was willing to change out the original furniture, then it's possible he changed out the fcg too, if it had wear on it. Not saying he did but it's possible. Why would you change the configuration of a gun and not shoot it?

Having said that. The actual lower looks great and I can't see indication of it being shot. Which may be why the OP asked about reanodizing too.

 

[nuge]

Looks unfired to me, and could be all original given the history of some of these A2 transferables. Just call Bob for the details.

 

[USSarizona]

Looks unfired to me, and could be all original given the history of some of these A2 transferables. Just call Bob for the details.

I'm not quite sure I will get an unbiased opinion there... I take it you mean Bob Bonnet, GM at Targetmaster, i.e. the one responsible for selling the gun.

On that note, what's with all the negative reviews of Targetmaster. They seem endless.

 

[dgleavitt]

Looks unfired to me, and could be all original given the history of some of these A2 transferables. Just call Bob for the details.

We know the upper isn't original, no removable carry handles in the 80s, but it is a great looking gun. Also, being the cynic that I am, I'm weary to believe that the stock is original as per my earlier post.

However, It still looks like a nice gun and I don't believe anyone here can tell you it looks fired. He is selling two other a2 rifles in the correct configuration. One of which he says is unfired but the auto sear catch on the hammer looks a little shiny in one spot and the buffer has a ring on the face, possibly from the bolt carrier. But I don't see a drag mark on the bolt catch. On the one he says is lightly fired has the drag mark on the catch but no visible wear on the buffer. Not saying these are definitive signs of part switching but it makes me wonder.

That said, you can definitely tell the one that says "lightly fired" shows signs of wear on the top of the lower receiver were the buffer tube threads in. Wear that I am not seeing on the Carbine that you are asking about.

 

[USSarizona]

I have it from two unrelated sources that Colt did manufacture 14.5 in guns with removable carry handles prior to '86. FWIW, customer service at Colt said that while they don't have the necessary records to confirm that, it is possible.

I'm still not sure what to believe.

 

[attherange]

I have it from two unrelated sources that Colt did manufacture 14.5 in guns with removable carry handles prior to '86. FWIW, customer service at Colt said that while they don't have the necessary records to confirm that, it is possible.

I'm still not sure what to believe.

With the money that you are spending, I would be more concerned with the registered receiver. Configuration is negligible, unless advertised as such. Lower appears to be "NIB" and for the most part unmolested YOU ARE ULTIMATELY PAYING FOR THE M16 A2 ROLL MARK! Bringing it back to any configuration (or one you most desire) is minor in nature. IMHOP. P.S. this horse is getting tired.

 

[USSarizona]

With the money that you are spending, I would be more concerned with the registered receiver. Configuration is negligible, unless advertised as such. Lower appears to be "NIB" and for the most part unmolested YOU ARE ULTIMATELY PAYING FOR THE M16 A2 ROLL MARK! Bringing it back to any configuration (or one you most desire) is minor in nature. IMHOP. P.S. this horse is getting tired.

Point taken and point taken.

 

[Villafuego]

YOU ARE ULTIMATELY PAYING FOR THE M16 A2 ROLL MARK! Bringing it back to any configuration (or one you most desire) is minor in nature. IMHOP. P.S. this horse is getting tired.

I agree......are you actually going to shoot this rifle ?

If not, just spend some more money for one with provenance and a wick still in the barrel....

If you're gonna put a mag or 2 downrange, what does it matter????

 

[Renegade]

I have it from two unrelated sources that Colt did manufacture 14.5 in guns with removable carry handles prior to '86. FWIW, customer service at Colt said that while they don't have the necessary records to confirm that, it is possible.

I'm still not sure what to believe.

A simple google search and you can verify yourself when detachable carry handles were invented. It is public knowledge, not secret DELTA SEAL team thing.

This is getting silly.

But one more piece of advice, whether you care to believe it or not - SWD did not make BAR, M60 or Tommy Guns, despite what sources may tell you or what you may see on a form or on a receiver.

ETA

Did you ask seller if gun was NIB? He is NOT listing it as NIB. He himself will probably tell it is not the original upper.

 

[Renegade]

With the money that you are spending, I would be more concerned with the registered receiver. Configuration is negligible, unless advertised as such. Lower appears to be "NIB" and for the most part unmolested YOU ARE ULTIMATELY PAYING FOR THE M16 A2 ROLL MARK! Bringing it back to any configuration (or one you most desire) is minor in nature. IMHOP. P.S. this horse is getting tired.

The only issue here is there is a hefty premium for an M16A2. If you want a shooter, save $10K and get an M16A1. I have 2 M16A2s and they are NIB safe queens. I do not get paying a $10K premium to not get all the benefits - box, paperwork, upper, etc. Especially if gun is listed as unfired. If it is unfired, where are all the other accessories? That dog does not hunt.

 

[USSarizona]

A simple google search and you can verify yourself when detachable carry handles were invented. It is public knowledge, not secret DELTA SEAL team thing.

This is getting silly.

But one more piece of advice, whether you care to believe it or not - SWD did not make BAR, M60 or Tommy Guns, despite what sources may tell you or what you may see on a form or on a receiver.

ETA

Did you ask seller if gun was NIB? He is NOT listing it as NIB. He himself will probably tell it is not the original upper.

Out of curiosity, I would like to learn about this peculiarity. I did a several google searches over the past few days regarding the history or introduction of detachable carry handles and couldn't turn up anything definitive. I did however, come across the invention of MIL-STD-1913 rails and found:

"The rail itself dates from work by the A.R.M.S. company in the early 1980s and Otto Repa in standardizing the Weaver design. Specifications for the M16A2E4 rifle and the M4E1 carbine received type classification generic in December 1994. These were the M16A2 and the M4 modified with new upper receivers where rails replaced hand guards.

The rail is named after the Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey, USA. The Picatinny Arsenal's role with the rail was to test/evaluate it and to create a military standard for it. This was Mil-STD-1913, dated February 3, 1995."

However, the Picitinny is not the only Rail Interface System.

I believe attherange mentioned in post #8 about an older carry handle. Does this mean the one on this gun is not a Picitinny?

*At this point, I think I will pass on the gun. I am grateful for everyone's input, it has been valuable in helping me make an important decision and what I have learned just in this thread will assist me in future decisions as well (although, I'm sure I will have many more q's). With that said, my inquiries in this thread moving forward are purely for the purpose of edification. To those who have been helpful, but now feel they are beating a dead horse, there is no pressure to provide further answers; know that I appreciate what insight you did provide.

 

[hfoster223]

Its been 29 years since 1986, kinda like looking for a 29 year old virgin. Good luck.

 

[robertmcm]

Look for a wick down the tube, like this


Look for marks on the selector stops


Take a good look at the furniture, make sure it's right


Of course this one isn't an m16

 

[attherange]

You should test fire that piece of junk to make sure it functions.....

 

[robertmcm]

Ha, not mine, came in the shop for someone day before yesterday

 

[Staddle]

I am not as knowledgeable as most of the posters, but can add one thing for what to look for in determining whether a M16 is NIB: it has to be in a box. If it is not in a box, it is not NIB.

 

[nuge]

Unfired A2 Example

Transferable, NIB M16A2:

 

[ftldrben]

Transferable, NIB M16A2:

Nice pics, nicer weapon.

Now I want to buy another...

 

[Shermanator]

Transferable, NIB M16A2:

That picture there makes it clear this may not be truly NIB. I don't believe Flat Top M16/AR15 uppers were made prior to 1990.....???

 

[Renegade]

Lotta folks getting conned....