In need of a quick rundown on the M10/M11 SMG

[jhogan2424]

Hi folks, I'm brand spankin new to the forum and also new to NFA items. I have been interested in obtaining a SMG for several years but finally got off my tail and had my trust set up this week. I have now started searching for the M10 I have wanted forever but now that I have seriously started researching the firearms I now see that there are actually several different types of these available. While I am researching I am running into different terms and options that I am not familiar with such as the different manufactures of the apparent same gun and also different magazine types. I have read that some magazines are very hard to find and others only a dime a dozen. I was hoping that someone here could give me a quick overview of what to look for and what to stay away from. I definitely want a 9mm version with the easily obtainable magazines and the only other requirement is that is able to accept the nice Lage uppers that I have seen. Also, what exactly are the differences between the M10 and M11? I know my questions are elementary to you fellas but I have to start somewhere. I did do a lot of reading on this site before posting but just when I thought I may have some of these questions figured out I would run into something that would seem to conflict with what I had just read. Hope not to offend anyone with nooby questions. Thanks for any help, Jason

 

[Tall Pine]

Heres a very brief starter:

M10 is the original. Thicker metal than M11, bigger in size/thicker, not as many produced compared to M11. About 1-3 different main manufacturers or roll stamps. Due to lower numbers produced, some fairly significant cool uppets not yet available. The Lage max-31 being one of them.

M11 has lots of units produced by several manufacturers. Lighter and thinner, and a lot more cool aftermarket stuff. Might have to watch out for wear and tear more due to thinner metal but Ive read the thinner metal holds up fine. So probably not an issue if you search for ones not abused.

I know nothing about the mags yet. Still learning. But figured Id give ypu what little I've learned in past few weeks.

Welcome aboard and good luck finding one.
Tall

 

[WKM]

As above, M10, comes in 45 ACP and 9mm versions. M11, lighter gun, comes in 9mm. I'm guessing it is the most produced version. M11A1, the smallest version comes in 380. The M11 has the most aftermarket products available. I have the M10, 45 ACP with original suppressor and a Lage mfg. MK 1 slow fire upper. Go to Lage Manufacturing to see available products .

Soon, you will see here more detailed information about these guns than I can give.
WKM

 

[Erevis]

I am hardly the expert that many here are but I'll add to the discussion since I was in your shoes a year or so ago.

In VERY general terms, the M-10 is bigger and made of thicker steel. It may come in .45ACP or 9mm.

The double feed bolt models require a double-feed magazine that used to be hard to get, but RPB makes a new production one now. They may also take converted (if you know how) Suomi M-31 magazines. If I recall correctly, TX MACs chambered in 9mm use a M-11/9mm magwell, and may use M-11/9mm magazines.

If one chose to, the M-10 has the advantage over the M-11 in that you can have it converted to use Uzi magazines.

Also, don't write off the .45ACP M-10 just yet. It is possible to use a magazine well insert and a 9mm upper on a .45ACP M-10 in order to shoot 9mm in it. A M10/9mm is limited to only firing 9mm due to having a smaller magwell than the .45ACP.


M-11/9mmss are smaller, are made of thinner material, and were made in much larger quantities. Because of those, they tend to have more aftermarket options in upgrades. They used to be limited to Zytel magazines, but there are new manufacture magazines available for them now as well.

There is a M-11 .380 "baby MAC" but I don't think you are interested in that one, and I am not the person to explain it.


All that said....

When I was in your shoes, I ended up choosing a M10/9mm RPB/Powder Springs Double Stamp. I chose the 9mm over the .45ACP because I was planning on having the Uzi grip conversion done and I didn't want to limit the options on a .45ACP MAC. I still may do the conversion, but I am converting some Suomi magazines to see if I want to stick with those.

I picked the M10 over the M11 for two primary reasons: 1.) It was there. My dealer had one in great shape for the right price. 2.) It is a heavier built gun, and I was in the mindset that it would hold up better (which may or may not be true.)


All that said, I pick up my M-10/9mm at 8:00 CST on Monday morning. I would have already had it, but my dealer went to Shot Show.

I hope this progresses the discussion a bit.

 

[CoffeeFreak]

Here is a short history lesson for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x9qHkgdTpc&x-yt-ts=1421914688&x-yt-cl=84503534

If I was going to start with one, it would be the M11/9 just because it has the most available after market upgrades. Of the MGs I've owned, STEN, UZI, M11/9 and a Reising, the M11 with the slow fire upper is my favorite.

 

[jhogan2424]

Thanks for the info so far guys. I am learning a lot. Please keep the info pouring. I do have another question about transferring the guns. I think I have this sorted but not sure. If I understand correctly, If I find a unit for sale by a class 3 DEALER in another state I only have to get it shipped to my local class 3 dealer in my state which would take place fairly quickly and then I do my paperwork at my dealer to start my wait for ATF approval. But, If I were to find a unit for sale by an INDVIDUAL in another state, I would have to pay for an actual "transfer" from that individual to my local dealer that would involve a substantial wait time to get to my dealer. Then, after the lengthy wait and the gun arrves at my dealer, I would fill out my paperwork for ATF approval and start my lengthy wait again. Is this all correct or am I missing something in the way I am understanding the process?

 

[Tall Pine]

I think you got it, but the wait time from out of state individual on Form 4 is substantially less than the normal Form 4 wait time. Mine took just 2 months in October.

IF the gun is in your state, its just one stamp from whoever has it to you. If the seller is in your state and is an individual, you dont need an FFL dealer, you and seller can do it all yourselves but still have to pay the 1 stamp.

I think this is correct info.

 

[medphys]

Thanks for the info so far guys. I am learning a lot. Please keep the info pouring. I do have another question about transferring the guns. I think I have this sorted but not sure. If I understand correctly, If I find a unit for sale by a class 3 DEALER in another state I only have to get it shipped to my local class 3 dealer in my state which would take place fairly quickly and then I do my paperwork at my dealer to start my wait for ATF approval. But, If I were to find a unit for sale by an INDVIDUAL in another state, I would have to pay for an actual "transfer" from that individual to my local dealer that would involve a substantial wait time to get to my dealer. Then, after the lengthy wait and the gun arrves at my dealer, I would fill out my paperwork for ATF approval and start my lengthy wait again. Is this all correct or am I missing something in the way I am understanding the process?

Think of it this way. Form 3 means a dealer has it. Dealers transfer between themselves tax free. Form 4 means an individual owns it. Individual to anybody (even a dealer) is $200. You can only transfer a NFA item to yourself (or trust or corp) in-state... so...

Out of state Form 4 is $200 to his dealer, $0 to your dealer, another $200 to you.
Out of state Form 3 is $0 to your dealer, $200 to you.
In state is the same, but you can do Form 4 to Form 4 and avoid the dealer. Still $200.

In my opinion, it's up to the seller to get the gun to his dealer so I would negotiate the seller paying the first $200.

4-3 transfer shouldn't be any longe than a 3-3 transfer. 3-4, you're looking at 6-9 months. Find a reputable dealer close by so you can shoot it, play with it, upgrade it, while it's in limbo. Any dealer who isn't willing to do that isn't worth giving him your money.

M11A1 or M11/Nine are your best pics, hands down.

 

[stoyan79]

M11/9 is what you want.

Nuff said.

 

[D-boy]

Thanks for the info so far guys. I am learning a lot. Please keep the info pouring. I do have another question about transferring the guns. I think I have this sorted but not sure. If I understand correctly, If I find a unit for sale by a class 3 DEALER in another state I only have to get it shipped to my local class 3 dealer in my state which would take place fairly quickly and then I do my paperwork at my dealer to start my wait for ATF approval. But, If I were to find a unit for sale by an INDVIDUAL in another state, I would have to pay for an actual "transfer" from that individual to my local dealer that would involve a substantial wait time to get to my dealer. Then, after the lengthy wait and the gun arrves at my dealer, I would fill out my paperwork for ATF approval and start my lengthy wait again. Is this all correct or am I missing something in the way I am understanding the process?

From a practical standpoint that is more or less right, not dwelling on the details.

Also, I wouldn't be concerned about the point that M11/9s are made out of thinner metal. They are very sturdy, and you would rather I swing a big rock at your ribs than swing an empty M11/9 at them. I think there is some type of gun out there that had bad welds on it, somebody can point out the brand as I forget. But you are spending thousands on this, and if it breaks it can be fixed for hundreds. I would take condition into account with respect to price, but remember you are paying for the stamp and the serial number when it comes down to it, not the metal. We still make metal, it's still legal, and you can add or replace as much as you want within reason.

It seems like the M10 is the best to shoot stock, although I don't have any experience with it. Double feed Uzi mags would be nice. It does take the basic MAX-10 Lage upper, although I have heard the M11/9 version (MAX-11 which I have) is better. The M11/9 has more uppers and options and probably will continue to because there are more of them out there.

 

[D-boy]

M11A1 or M11/Nine are your best pics, hands down.

Why M11A1? I haven't shot one yet, but my buddy has one and says it is more out of control than M11/9. I'm never able to get a consistent answer on which is the most controllable stock MAC. If you know, please tell me.

Plus, I thought M11A1 mags were very expensive? Are there reliable replacements now?

 

[Tall Pine]

M11/Nine are your best pics, hands down.

Help me on nomenclature. ...is the M11/Nine same as M11/9 in terms of being the same variant or were they different variants? Wasn't the M11/Nine made by SWD?
Thx

 

[D-boy]

Help me on nomenclature. ...is the M11/Nine same as M11/9 in terms of being the same variant or were they different variants? Wasn't the M11/Nine made by SWD?
Thx

Same.

 

[jhogan2424]

Wow, thanks to all for so much info. It is great to be able to find out so much from such knowledgeable and helpful folks. Obviously, I have a ton more to learn but it looks as if the M11/9mm is best for my needs. Now, is this variant available with both the single and double feed mags and if so, does one feed better or will either perform about the same? And finally, who here has one they want to part with?!!! I would prefer a bone stock example to keep initial cost down. That way I can upgrade the way I want over time as extra money finds its' way into my wallet.

 

[theduke]

Help me on nomenclature. ...is the M11/Nine same as M11/9 in terms of being the same variant or were they different variants? Wasn't the M11/Nine made by SWD?
Thx

Why M11A1? I haven't shot one yet, but my buddy has one and says it is more out of control than M11/9. I'm never able to get a consistent answer on which is the most controllable stock MAC. If you know, please tell me.

Plus, I thought M11A1 mags were very expensive? Are there reliable replacements now?

If you haven't been Here yet.....some good info. I thought it used too cover the "10's " as well ?
http://www.mac-11.info/catalog.htm



Mac 10 info....

http://www.firearmsid.com/feature articles/012001/mac10history.htm

Atomic Lab Rat was another good info site but looks like it has changed since I was last there...Perhaps someone will chime in on that.
Original info is Gone damit..I did find This..


enjoy..old school

http://www.atomiclabrat.com/MAC-10 Cookbook/the MAC-10 Cookbook.htm

 

[CoffeeFreak]

The Mac Man book is a great source of information too.

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/

 

[Jmacken37]

M11/Nine was only ever made by SWD. There is only one "flavor" of that gun. The baby macs and Mac 10s all have different flavors. The M11/Nine is the gun you want. Don't screw around with the others. My opinion of course! The Mac 10 is just too heavy and brickish for my tastes.

 

[timkel]

The Mac Man book is a great source of information too.

http://www.machinegunbooks.com/

This....It is the MAC bible. educate yourself before you purchase.

 

[Tall Pine]

The M11/Nine is the gun you want.

You mean the M11/9 ?
lol

 

[Jmacken37]

Sure!

I guess the real name is M-11/Nine...