Is the Galil ACE dead for U.S. sales with AK, Saiga Import ban in place

[lcastillo]

So Guys with the import ban on the Saiga's VEPR and AK-47's do you think any future introduction of the Galil ACE (Galil 2.0) to the U.S. market is off the table with IWI? Will the ACE Galil fall into this group? Is there a list of rifles on the ban? Thanks Lou

 

[Mr Folgers]

Lou... it's not an Import-ban, it's a sanction against Russian conglomerates and enterprises.

The only guns temporarily restricted from import are the ones made by Izhmash/Izhevsk. This in no way affects any other foreign made rifle or manufacturer.

 

[mrf2]

There should be no issues with any other rifles besides those from Russia. Nothing was banned, only caught up in sanctions against Russia. The only reason the Russian rifles have been barred from import is because they were part of a larger list of sanctions against the Russian government and arms industry in response to their actions in Ukraine. I would expect that the sanctions against Russia will hold until the crisis in Ukraine ends. You may even see the return of Russian AK imports because I don't believe the administration would go line-by-line through the companies sanctioned. If Russian arms are to be banned from further import I would look for an Executive order of the type that Bush Sr. put out in 1989 or that Clinton put out against Chinese weapons in 1994 to be issued separately with large amounts of press.

Edit to add: Mr Folgers has got it, he posted while I was still typing. I am sorry if this comes off a little strong but I've been seeing that miss-information all over the net about what this is. We (gun owners) do this to our selves, we get all whipped up and start panic buying.

 

[riderboy]

Good. Come to Poppa.

 

[StooperZero]

desperately waiting......



only thing that would stop them is if things in Israel spiraled out of control.

 

[TOOL_MAN]

I thought they were going to build a plant here in the U.S.A ? I read somewhere that we were going to give them money to spend in the U.S.

 

[Mr Folgers]

I thought they were going to build a plant here in the U.S.A ? I read somewhere that we were going to give them money to spend in the U.S.

They did.
The plant is already built and operating, but they do not have the tooling for the ACE.

It is unlikely they will be manufacturing them anytime soon; the Tavor has been selling extremely well in this country, and to build the ACE they would either have to drop Tavor production or expand their facility, which could take months or years.

There is also a question that has not been asked: Does IWI actually produce and own the rights to the ACE or does INDUMIL?
Of the little information there is on the ACE, some sources have claimed it is an INDUMIL design that is licensed from IWI. Remember that Colombia is the one fielding the new ACE and that all the footage available of the IWI-Israel facility indicates only the Tavor, Uzi and Jericho are in production. It could be (and highly likely in my opinion) that INDUMIL is contracted by IWI for sole production and IWI simply markets them.
Similar to how IMI/IWI manufactured the Desert Eagle but Magnum Research sold them.

 

[lcastillo]

There should be no issues with any other rifles besides those from Russia. Nothing was banned, only caught up in sanctions against Russia. The only reason the Russian rifles have been barred from import is because they were part of a larger list of sanctions against the Russian government and arms industry in response to their actions in Ukraine. I would expect that the sanctions against Russia will hold until the crisis in Ukraine ends. You may even see the return of Russian AK imports because I don't believe the administration would go line-by-line through the companies sanctioned. If Russian arms are to be banned from further import I would look for an Executive order of the type that Bush Sr. put out in 1989 or that Clinton put out against Chinese weapons in 1994 to be issued separately with large amounts of press.

Edit to add: Mr Folgers has got it, he posted while I was still typing. I am sorry if this comes off a little strong but I've been seeing that miss-information all over the net about what this is. We (gun owners) do this to our selves, we get all whipped up and start panic buying.

Thanks for the clarification Mrf2 and Mr Folgers. I did get my information first hand from a over zealous source. Then of course to add to the confusion is everyone trying to buy up AK's before they run out. Wow.

 

[lcastillo]

There is also a question that has not been asked: Does IWI actually produce and own the rights to the ACE or does INDUMIL?
Of the little information there is on the ACE, some sources have claimed it is an INDUMIL design that is licensed from IWI. Remember that Colombia is the one fielding the new ACE and that all the footage available of the IWI-Israel facility indicates only the Tavor, Uzi and Jericho are in production. It could be (and highly likely in my opinion) that INDUMIL is contracted by IWI for sole production and IWI simply markets them.
Similar to how IMI/IWI manufactured the Desert Eagle but Magnum Research sold them.

Mr Folgers you bring up an excellent question. I did a bit of research through Colombian articles in Spanish and here is some of the information I was able to find.

IMI/IWI and Industrias Militares (INDUMIL) are partners according to the Colombian Ministry of defense. During the Colombian conflict IMI/INDUMIL joined forces due to restrictions of arms and spare parts. The Colombian government at this time saw the need for continuous supply of new materials, spare parts and weapons and allowed this partnership to develop. Around this time Israel decided to standardize to the Colt M-16 \15 (M-Family) so IMI gave up producing the Galil and transferred all Galil patents, technology and assembly equipment to INDUMIL.

What is interesting is that now that Denel no longer produces the R-Series rifle. INDUMIL has become the only producer of Galil's in the world. In fact the Peruvian FAME plant only assembles the Galil ACE with all the parts and components provided by INDUMIL. I can not find it right now but I understand that INDUMIL makes barrels for the Tavors but are stamped "made in Israel" for IWI purposes.

Here is a list of products that can be found made at the José María Córdoba Factory of the INDUMIL website. (Translated)



José María CórdobaFactory
In compliance with the company’s General Mission, this factory is dedicated to serve and support the Military Forces and National Police, the State security entities, private security firms, people in general, and foreign markets. In accordance to governmental policies, such as State development and economical aperture, the company has made efforts to present adequate products to the Defense Sector. Some of the most important ones are:

GALIL ACE rifle 5.56mm caliber (models 21, 22, and 23)

5,56 mm munitions. GALIL rifle 5,56 mm caliber.

9 mm Nato munitions. Indumil Llama revolver, 32L and 38L caliber.

Indumil 12 caliber Shotgun, in accordance to private surveillance and security sector requirements.

Spare parts to attend the maintenance needs of the G-3 and Galil Military Forces rifles.

7,65 mm munitions.

Aside from the previous elements, the factory has the capacity to produce munitions for 12, 16, and 20 caliber shotguns, 38L, 32L, 38 Wad Cutter, and 32 Wad Cutter caliber munitions for revolvers, and special cartridges for seismic and oil exploration. (End)

I still have a little more research to do and as soon as I find more I will post on it. Lou

 

[Sidewinder]

So I take it there's little chance that the Gail ACE will be available in the U.S. anytime soon as things now stand?

 

[lcastillo]

So I take it there's little chance that the Gail ACE will be available in the U.S. anytime soon as things now stand?

Warren keep the faith, just keep the faith! Maybe things will turn around:clap

 

[eyegun]

Those would be dead sexy if they didn't have that ubiquitous ghey telescoping stock

 

[lcastillo]

Those would be dead sexy if they didn't have that ubiquitous ghey telescoping stock

Eyegun, if you would like to rock the original Galil folding stock. It looks like the Galil ACE stock pin is in the same location on the receiver as the original Galil. You just might be able to fit the original Galil folding stock assembly on the Galil ACE 2.0

 

[Sidewinder]

Speaking of sexy, those mags inserted into the ACE in the thread images are sexy looking.

 

[RSR]

Well if those 2.23/5.56 Russian AK variants dry up, there might just be marketplace for Galil Ace as an alternative...

What's the only alternative, the Polish Beryl? Sig's piston rifles that have mixed reliability records?

 

[riderboy]

Well if those 2.23/5.56 Russian AK variants dry up, there might just be marketplace for Galil Ace as an alternative...

What's the only alternative, the Polish Beryl? Sig's piston rifles that have mixed reliability records?

Yes. There's also the LWRC piston guns and mine has never failed me. At least on a nice sunny warm day under canopy at the shooting range!

RSR PM sent

 

[Mr Folgers]

Those would be dead sexy if they didn't have that ubiquitous ghey telescoping stock

I've heard feedback on them from Colombian regulars;
The 'new' stocks are apparently quite flimsy in comparison to the originals. The fact that they don't fold is also a big issue in my books.
However the ACE is generally regarded as being more accurate and of course, lighter.

One interesting thing to note is it looks like they ditched the Galil-sights for the ones they put on the Haddar-II.

 

[riderboy]

I've heard feedback on them from Colombian regulars;
The 'new' stocks are apparently quite flimsy in comparison to the originals. The fact that they don't fold is also a big issue in my books.
However the ACE is generally regarded as being more accurate and of course, lighter.

One interesting thing to note is it looks like they ditched the Galil-sights for the ones they put on the Haddar-II.

Weight has been a big complaint about the Galil from those who have to carry them for duty. And it's very difficult to lighten, swapping the original stock out for a plastic one is one way. Is the ACE reciever stamped or milled?

 

[lcastillo]

Riderboy, the ACE's receiver is milled from a solid block of steel. They also have a composite/steel receiver which will be the one that hits the USA.

 

[RSR]

Yes. There's also the LWRC piston guns and mine has never failed me. At least on a nice sunny warm day under canopy at the shooting range!

RSR PM sent

Isn't the LWRC a short stroke piston?

I was referencing long stroke piston Kalash-type actions. The Sig556 has this, and the polish beryl is a modified AK. Both 5.56. Don't know of too many other options in the long stroke world. The Galil and Tavor both utilize as well, but usually folks select bullpups for alternative reasons than just the actions. And the Saiga's and VEPRs were pretty much all the others. EDIT: It does look like Arsenal sells some bulgarian AKs in 5.56, but those run $1k+.

Short stroke you have most if not all of the piston ARs of which I'm aware, Ruger Ranch rifles, VZ58s, SCARs, and probably a few other weapon systems in 5.56 as well.

Generally speaking however, all of these weapons no under sanctions run in the ~$750-$1k+ range, so pricewise, the market might be starting to make sense for the Galil ACE to be competitively priced.