Is the uzi a militarily relevant weapon?
- Thread starter blueline541
- Start date
has anyone played around with loading hot 9mm ammo ,i used to try differant loads and came up with one that was over 2000 fps with a 115 gr bullett i checked it a few feet from the muzzel with a meter,i used 2400 powder dont remember how many grains i worked up to it was about the same vel as a m1 carbine but with a bigger bullet.i fired a bunch of it with no problems i think i used small rife primers instead of pistol primers.its been a long time since i reloaded but still have some put away seperate.i worked up the load for a sa uzi w/16in barrel
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DeadEyeDonna
Well-known member
I will chime in 12 or 13 years later...
I think it is still relevant in certain, but not all applications.
CQB and urban warfare it is still relevant and functional.
To the poster who claims the AR platform is maybe 1/10th as reliable as the AK platform....
Are you speaking in terms of the M16 deployment to RVN w/o cleaning kits and with a change in ammunition?
Yes, horribly unreliable and very problematic - but that was 1960-something. Even my uncle, a combat vet (35th SPS Phan Rang AB) told me stories of guy coming back in from patrol with baling wire and duct tape holding their M16s together, and how they all prefered the M14...but that is 55 years ago, and I would say all of those teething issues have been worked out. I run my ARs and M16 hard....I train with them, I compete with them, and even do my semi-annual certification training with the sheriff's office...NOT a problem - that wasn't user induced.
I have used hot ammo in my Uzi, Brit (Hirtenberger) L7A1 +P+, at about 1500 FPS and it ramps up cyclic rate to about 1000 RPM!!!
That will cut someone in half - just my opinion.
And +P+ ammo may go through level IIIA soft armor, but in a .mil application, all the plates will be hard and rifle rated, as are mine and 9mm will not be an issue.
Be that as it may. if I was the bullet sponge or point man making dynamic entries with a team or cell, I really would not feel underarmed with an Uzi.
I think it is still relevant in certain, but not all applications.
CQB and urban warfare it is still relevant and functional.
To the poster who claims the AR platform is maybe 1/10th as reliable as the AK platform....
Are you speaking in terms of the M16 deployment to RVN w/o cleaning kits and with a change in ammunition?
Yes, horribly unreliable and very problematic - but that was 1960-something. Even my uncle, a combat vet (35th SPS Phan Rang AB) told me stories of guy coming back in from patrol with baling wire and duct tape holding their M16s together, and how they all prefered the M14...but that is 55 years ago, and I would say all of those teething issues have been worked out. I run my ARs and M16 hard....I train with them, I compete with them, and even do my semi-annual certification training with the sheriff's office...NOT a problem - that wasn't user induced.
I have used hot ammo in my Uzi, Brit (Hirtenberger) L7A1 +P+, at about 1500 FPS and it ramps up cyclic rate to about 1000 RPM!!!
That will cut someone in half - just my opinion.
And +P+ ammo may go through level IIIA soft armor, but in a .mil application, all the plates will be hard and rifle rated, as are mine and 9mm will not be an issue.
Be that as it may. if I was the bullet sponge or point man making dynamic entries with a team or cell, I really would not feel underarmed with an Uzi.
dawg180
Ar-15 Guru, Uzi Novice
The uzi falls under the category of "obsolescent" in my mind.
It was the pinnacle of 1950's subgun technology.
But these days it is a (by comparison) realtively heavy, non optics mounting, open bolt submachinegun.
There are lighter, more capable SMG's available.
That being said, it is still serviceable and can still kill a bad guy dead. It just is a bit on the backside of the bell curve of current technology and peak performance.
It was the pinnacle of 1950's subgun technology.
But these days it is a (by comparison) realtively heavy, non optics mounting, open bolt submachinegun.
There are lighter, more capable SMG's available.
That being said, it is still serviceable and can still kill a bad guy dead. It just is a bit on the backside of the bell curve of current technology and peak performance.
Agreed.
It was a huge improvement over the SMG's of WWII, but basically became obsolete when the MP5 came out 12 years later.
Today, if you are looking to outfit a unit with 9mm SMGs, the list is enormous for lighter more versatile weapons that are still being manufactured, supported and upgraded. The fact that UZI production ceased 30 years ago is telling for the actual applicability of it's real world use.
The Croatians made a copy of the UZI in the 90's called the ERO as well as the 'Mini ERO' which looks like a across between a Mini and Micro UZI.
Link below says still in service but I don't know.
https://special-ops.org/croatian-submachine-gun-ero/#Strojnica_Mini-ERO
Link below says still in service but I don't know.
https://special-ops.org/croatian-submachine-gun-ero/#Strojnica_Mini-ERO
Military contracts go to the cheapest supplier of the product that meets the specifications. Considering this, no modern military will be adopting the Uzi anytime soon, as it's not being produced anymore, nor is there a repair facility.
If someone were to modernize the Uzi, for example a closed bolt, qd suppressor mount, maybe an optics mount, polymer grip farme and stock etc, it could easily compete with more modern designs, especially in the Mini configuration.
If someone were to modernize the Uzi, for example a closed bolt, qd suppressor mount, maybe an optics mount, polymer grip farme and stock etc, it could easily compete with more modern designs, especially in the Mini configuration.
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Landric
Well-known member
So, the Uzi PRO? That basically checks all the boxes except that it is a micro rather than a mini. No reason it couldn’t be upsized to the mini size though.
hey_hi_its_me_vlad
Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2010
- Messages
- 11
As a military weapon it's next to useless except as a relentlessly reliable suppressor host with subsonic ammo.
Which is a bit of a niche role.
Having said that, the majority of the population is next to useless as far as military relevance. No, seriously.
Food for thought... if it's just you and a few family members and friends, some of which are literally children, your chances of going toe to toe with any large group of military or aggressive gangs will MAY result is a strategic victory. But the attrition rate WILL almost always be one you simply will not stomach.
So, on THAT point... a traditional weapon that falls into military usable category would itself be nothing but dead weight, because firing a single shot in a skirmish with even small fringe elements would result in the entire force bearing down on you shortly after. You will then be "committed to the fight" at that point.
This is where something extremely reliable, and suppressed would shine best. Something that's easily concealed under rags (unlike a full on rifle) like the micro or mini and that shares ammo with your glock 26, 19, 17, cz75, beretta 92 etc...
If trained on and properly utilized... it's a massive asset to those elements (families) that simply can't hold their own if "decisively engaged" and are doing their best to avoid discovery by a larger force.
In actual "near peer" combat of similar forces? Worthless.
Which is a bit of a niche role.
Having said that, the majority of the population is next to useless as far as military relevance. No, seriously.
Food for thought... if it's just you and a few family members and friends, some of which are literally children, your chances of going toe to toe with any large group of military or aggressive gangs will MAY result is a strategic victory. But the attrition rate WILL almost always be one you simply will not stomach.
So, on THAT point... a traditional weapon that falls into military usable category would itself be nothing but dead weight, because firing a single shot in a skirmish with even small fringe elements would result in the entire force bearing down on you shortly after. You will then be "committed to the fight" at that point.
This is where something extremely reliable, and suppressed would shine best. Something that's easily concealed under rags (unlike a full on rifle) like the micro or mini and that shares ammo with your glock 26, 19, 17, cz75, beretta 92 etc...
If trained on and properly utilized... it's a massive asset to those elements (families) that simply can't hold their own if "decisively engaged" and are doing their best to avoid discovery by a larger force.
In actual "near peer" combat of similar forces? Worthless.
Re: "Outdated" weapons; modern Sniper Rifles are bolt actions, which is a design that is over 125 years old; the same type Nuclear Bombs dropped on Japan 76 years ago would devastate modern cities. Just because a weapon design is not the "latest, greatest" thing on the market doesn't mean it is worthless.
Some additional thoughts…
A SMG has two basic applications for military use. First is for Special Units doing certain tasks like hostage rescue, urban assault, or VIP protection. Second is as a PDW for non-infantry personnel where carrying a standard rifle or carbine isn’t feasible… like tank crew or pilot/flight crew.
Couple of things about the Uzi (modern IDF versions excluded) that makes its choice problematic is one… it’s overly heavy for a PDW and two… it’s not versatile enough when it comes to adding modern accessories like electronic sights, weapons lights, or IR lasers that a Special Unit would want to use.
A SMG has two basic applications for military use. First is for Special Units doing certain tasks like hostage rescue, urban assault, or VIP protection. Second is as a PDW for non-infantry personnel where carrying a standard rifle or carbine isn’t feasible… like tank crew or pilot/flight crew.
Couple of things about the Uzi (modern IDF versions excluded) that makes its choice problematic is one… it’s overly heavy for a PDW and two… it’s not versatile enough when it comes to adding modern accessories like electronic sights, weapons lights, or IR lasers that a Special Unit would want to use.
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