Lage MFG Belt Fed and 10/22 Uppers - New Release

woodenword

UZI Talk Supporter
Feedback: 19 / 0 / 0
Joined
Jun 4, 2010
Messages
1,058
Location
All over the place!
While the 10k cost is a bit for me right now, I went ahead and got on the list. i might feel different or be in a different position by the time it goes into production.

And as far as it being aluminum, I don’t see that as a problem.
 

ktk120

Well-known member
Feedback: 12 / 0 / 0
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
343
As a business owner, I’ve seen almost everything I buy double (at least) in price since Covid. Bought a cheeseburger lately? If the upper is $10k today, it would have been $5k about 5 years ago. Everything Mr. Lage and I buy has also doubled. If we don’t raise our prices accordingly, we are going in the hole. It. Would be like asking those of you with jobs to take a reduction in salary, would you do that? Just wanted some of you having sticker shock to consider that everything is more expensive, and if production of a product or service isn’t profitable, it won’t be offered very long or at all…
no one is denying prices are up but when you compare the price of this upper to his other uppers there is not really that much more materials involved and overall aluminum is very very cheap comparative to other things. Again we all understand it has to be profitable to do but 10k seems like a price point that almost makes it not worth it. I would be surprised if he sold 100 of each platform. Vs say coming in at $5000 and selling 10,000 of them.
 

rchaisch

Well-known member
Feedback: 10 / 0 / 0
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Messages
356
Location
Nebraska
Here's my .$02..... We have from now til 2027 to save up and buy one. So like me, I'm going to start saving so I can buy it. It's still a lot to save, but YOLO! Lol.

YMMV, IMHO, etc, etc.
 

A&S Conversions

UZI Talk Life Member
Feedback: 5 / 0 / 0
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
3,098
Location
Southern New Hampshire
no one is denying prices are up but when you compare the price of this upper to his other uppers there is not really that much more materials involved and overall aluminum is very very cheap comparative to other things.
I beg to differ, the feed mechanism needs energy to function. In most all of the belt fed designs that I am aware of, that energy comes from the bolt group. The bolt group is traveling back and forth in the axis of the barrel. The belt feeds from 90 degrees from the barrel axis. However that is done, all of the pieces must fit precisely. The more mass of the parts and the slop in the series the of parts, the more drag in the system. Tolerance stacking can be a problem too. The tighter the tolerances are, the more expensive each part is to produce.

There is also the production costs. Every custom made part is 10 or 20 times more expensive than an off the shelf part. With Richard’s reputation, I am absolutely certain that his belt fed would be of very high quality. But with all the parts and the precision required, I can see where a belt fed would be 10 times the cost of a mag feed upper.

Scott
 

ktk120

Well-known member
Feedback: 12 / 0 / 0
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
343
I beg to differ, the feed mechanism needs energy to function. In most all of the belt fed designs that I am aware of, that energy comes from the bolt group. The bolt group is traveling back and forth in the axis of the barrel. The belt feeds from 90 degrees from the barrel axis. However that is done, all of the pieces must fit precisely. The more mass of the parts and the slop in the series the of parts, the more drag in the system. Tolerance stacking can be a problem too. The tighter the tolerances are, the more expensive each part is to produce.

There is also the production costs. Every custom made part is 10 or 20 times more expensive than an off the shelf part. With Richard’s reputation, I am absolutely certain that his belt fed would be of very high quality. But with all the parts and the precision required, I can see where a belt fed would be 10 times the cost of a mag feed upper.

Scott
That's fine if thats the actual cost but the price is so high you will sell so few he going to have to decide if its actually worth it or do you make your money back by selling 50million worth of them vs 1 million worth of them at 10k a pop. As you can see form this thread there is one maybe 2 buyers here at 10K?
 

Offmarksman

UZI Talk Life Member
Feedback: 22 / 0 / 0
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Messages
873
While I’m sure Richard would love it, if he sold 10,000 of them, this will not happen😂. This is a very niche market. While he is the standard in the Mac market, he is still a small business. I am guessing the numbers sold would be in the hundreds (even if he sold them at his cost). Economics should be a required course in every school in America, and everyone should have to write a check out of their personal account for all their tax withholding….
 

Deerhurst

Registered User
Feedback: 0 / 0 / 0
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
1,318
Location
USA
I don't own a belt fed though I have shot a few. They are different, you really feel the power to 'own' an area down range. The MG-42 especially was such a vicious piece.

I've heard it said that "You don't own a belt fed, you marry one". It's because of the cost and time for; ammo, linking ammo, picking up, cleaning, and maintaining the links, maintaining the gun, lots of spare parts, special tools, etc.. Schlepping all of that to the range and back. Even a small one like the Lage or Lima 6 is a huge step up over a magazine fed 5.56 MG. Is it worth it? That's up to you, your wallet, and your other spouse(?).
This is very true. I have 2 belt feds. A UK-59 and a Yugo M53. I love them but they are a pain in the ass. At least both use non disentigrating belts so I have that going for me. If I take both to go shooting I have ~60lbs of firearms plus belts, ammo, etc. Probably 80-100lbs of junk to have a fun day with 2 rifles. loading belts sucks without special loaders. The UK-59 belt is miserable to load without a loader and I have not yet found a loader for sale.

Thankfully I have yet to need spare parts especially as the UK-59 is particularly rare. MG42 parts are easy to get.

UK-59 is by far the most violent firearm I have every fired. Not quite MG-42 ROF but 18" in 7.62x54r and a short bolt stroke. They are beautifully machined with a very unique manual of arms. The service life makes basically any other firearm look pathetic as they are rated for over 1 million rounds service life.


For the general shooter they are not useful past shooting from a bench or from the ground on a bipod. I do occasionally use them for things like 2 or 3 gun. Very slow, heavy and awkward for that type of thing.



One off parts are very, very expensive. Once you have 1000 made the price drops significantly unless your part requires a bunch of setups. Most of the time there is a significant price drop after a couple dozen parts. Aluminum is often chosen because it can be cut fast and hard due to being soft. Flood it with coolant and rip! It's also much easier on tooling than harder materials.


Belt feds require way more energy than a comparable mag fed to run. You have to have enough energy to drag a loaded belt into the firearm then strip a round off the belt, push the spent stuff out and do it all over again. I expect things like extra stiff hammer springs to cause issues for guys running weak ammo in the Lima6 or fitelite uppers. Some belt feds, like my UK, require a massive spring loaded damper to essentially fling the carrier forward with enough snap to strip a round from the belt. The MG42 has this too but an even gnarlier spring.(Also functions the ejector and causes issues when not enough energy/velocity)



Belt feds rock but you need to understand what you are getting into.

If you have a runaway you either hold on and ride the lightning, grab the belt and try to make the gun choke or break the belt and wait for it to run out.
 

m11stuff@hotmail.com

UZI Talk Life Member
Feedback: 44 / 0 / 0
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
2,311
For you guys that like to do the math, consider that we have been selling rifle caliber uppers for 7 years now and have sold 1,707 uppers as of today. That is the combined quantity of MAX-11/15's, MAX-11A1/15's and MAX-10/15's. The first couple of years of sales for each was high and then tapered off. We sell approximately 5 to 7 rifle caliber uppers per month now.

We expect the demand for a belt fed upper will be a fraction of that, regardless of price point, primarily due to it being a different type of customer.
Regarding demand, we have a flood of e-mails to get on the waiting list as well as people who were added to the waiting list on paper, since the upper was revealed at the 2025 SAR Show.
 

ktk120

Well-known member
Feedback: 12 / 0 / 0
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Messages
343
Good perspective Richard. I know I don't have any because of cost. We all appreciate what you have done but its so hard to get any new MG owners at today prices and when one comes in they just don't have the money for these things because they spent it all on the guns. If they have the money the already have more transferable and don't need mac uppers. (money no object crowd) If it cant be done for sub 2k its not going to sell anymore. That's the world we live in now. Disagree if you want but that's the reality. There is no such thing as extra money or saving up thousands for 99.9% of population.

Another item about to happen is aging out of gun owners. Most MG are in hands of folks aging out of it. I bet 60% of the mac go on the market in the next decade. They will be bought by first time MG owner and only MG owners and there will be new big demand if the price point can be kept reasonable.

Additionally in the next year there will be good working FRT for nearly every semi auto weapon in existence. While it hasn't happened yet that will at some point suppress MG demand.
 
Last edited:

Hey

Moderator, UZI Talk Life Member
Staff member
Feedback: 14 / 0 / 0
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
3,571
Location
Atlanta
Curious if there’s a working prototype of either belt or .22 for the 380 size guns?
 

m11stuff@hotmail.com

UZI Talk Life Member
Feedback: 44 / 0 / 0
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
2,311
No there is not, but the recoil mechanism for the Beltfed is similar to the MAX-11/15 which has a spacer which is eliminated when used in the M-11A1 or M-10.

The .22 upper had a very long stroke. Shortening it for the M-11A1 and M-10 will not be a problem.
 

Hey

Moderator, UZI Talk Life Member
Staff member
Feedback: 14 / 0 / 0
Joined
Apr 10, 2016
Messages
3,571
Location
Atlanta
Thank you for the details. Much appreciated.
 

theduke

UZI Talk Life Member
Feedback: 25 / 0 / 0
Joined
Mar 29, 2012
Messages
945
Location
OreGun
perhaps my caliber ? was overlooked in pg 4 or wherever.

will there be an option for 308/06/8m/? at some point?

223 is fine but as a beltfed Fanatic...I want more bang.

I have zero problem with the cost.

Cloth belts would be a nice option in the larger calibers.

Yes....if your going down the beltfed road......its the acceseries that add up .

NFG'n.....I got all that already
 

m11stuff@hotmail.com

UZI Talk Life Member
Feedback: 44 / 0 / 0
Joined
Nov 30, 2004
Messages
2,311
perhaps my caliber ? was overlooked in pg 4 or wherever.

will there be an option for 308/06/8m/? at some point?

223 is fine but as a beltfed Fanatic...I want more bang.

I have zero problem with the cost.

Cloth belts would be a nice option in the larger calibers.

Yes....if your going down the beltfed road......its the acceseries that add up .

NFG'n.....I got all that already
Well I can’t say I won’t since I said I would never make a rifle caliber upper…..and I did.
 

Please Visit our Sister Sites Below

Sister Board - Sturmgewehr Sister Board - MachinegunBoards


Please consider becoming an UZI Talk Supporter
Top