Looking for owners with problems with the MM23 beltfed .223

Robgunbuilder

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I have had the same problem with my MM23e In FA it will occasionally stop with the hammer down on a live round. I converted it to a 21e and it's been flawless for over 1000 rnds. I called Mike and we discussed the trigger pack and maybe the need for a retimed hammer. However I'm using the same pack now in the 21e with no issues. Im using 62 gr federal ammo in the 23e and it happens once per 100 rnd belt. I too thought it was most likely due to an early trip but never resolved it as the gun has not been in 23e configuration for awhile now.
 

Bob T

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Took the MM23e out today, used the heavy barrel, ran Tula 55 gr fmj steel case white box.

Shot two, one hundred round belts in shorts bursts. Not a single problem. Gun ran like it used to, hurrah!! Hope it continues to run this well.
 

JTinIN

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Took the MM23e out today, used the heavy barrel, ran Tula 55 gr fmj steel case white box.

Shot two, one hundred round belts in shorts bursts. Not a single problem. Gun ran like it used to, hurrah!! Hope it continues to run this well.

Sounds like a start. I just ordered an extra 20++ locking piece just to have in case of any under loaded / weak ammo with the short barrel (the 20+ is normally for the short barrel and is the backup for the full length barrel).

I a different direction, thinking about wandering out to Yuma Az this winter (weather nicer than mid summer ;-) to see the son and might end up dragging along a couple HKs (can keep the sear in money belt when sleeping over night if have to ;-). Starting to check places to shoot around him and places to stop and see on the way, plus good place to pick up ammo (might save gas money not loading the truck up with a half dozen plus cases of ammo ;-).
 

Slingo

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With the new re timed hammer I am up and running 400 rounds ...Eyegun and myself have a next generation bolt in the works from MM..Something about the pair we have now are hardened incorrectly ?Both our bolts were swapped out after we broke them..This gun on the ring mount is effective very steady ..Thing is with the swing down you need to load it before it goes on the mount..Then don't run it out of ammo ..So you link a new belt
 

DINK

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Quick update om my gun-

First, the new hammer is no good. The notch is cut wrong so it won't catch the auto sear when pushed down by the underside of the bolt, plus it won't even disengage from the auto sear when it's depressed by hand. So much for a "proper" timed hammer. I'm getting it fixed locally.

Second, the bolt gap in my 23E was around .011". I put a pair of +2 rollers in to bring it up to .018" and took it to the range, where it proceeded to gobble up a belt of Tula like old times- no problems whatsoever. I can't explain it, but I'm sure happy it's running again.
 

JTinIN

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With the new re timed hammer I am up and running 400 rounds ...Eyegun and myself have a next generation bolt in the works from MM..Something about the pair we have now are hardened incorrectly ?Both our bolts were swapped out after we broke them..This gun on the ring mount is effective very steady ..Thing is with the swing down you need to load it before it goes on the mount..Then don't run it out of ammo ..So you link a new belt

Same here, however, have more rounds down range through my replacement bolt (same lot as the first bolt) than I fired on the first bolt, so looking like working out for now. For the next generation bolt (in particular the extra one I am ordering), I might wait until you guys put a few cases of ammo through your "next generation bolt" as will be too cold up north anyway, unless luck out and get a warm and/or low snow winter (friends ranges are half mile back on the farm so wet or deep snow is bad ... or down a steep shaded hill, so snow and ice can mean staying the month ;-). You know this time of year in the Midwest, Global Warming can be a good thing for shooters ;-).

My take from limited knowledge and in connection with your comment on the "next generation bolt", it that the vast majority of bolts were fine, as indicated by a many shooters having tens of thousands of rounds fired, and just a few bolts from a small lot (which the three of us might be the bulk of the failures or possible even the only field failures) had issues with the hardening. While at times the end user would wish for no changes in process, in fact any manufacturing process tends to be an on going process with small improvements trying to get the most wear/life possible for shooters etc. It sounds like the next generation bolts should be better than the old bolts with the old / initial hardening process that are currently working fine and thus a long term improvement. Again this is my take from general comments and should not be taken as fact.
 
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Slingo

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Same here, however, have more rounds down range through my replacement bolt (same lot as the first bolt) than I fired on the first bolt, so looking like working out for now. For the next generation bolt (in particular the extra one I am ordering), I might wait until you guys put a few cases of ammo through your "next generation bolt" as will be too cold up north anyway, unless luck out and get a warm and/or low snow winter (friends ranges are half mile back on the farm so wet or deep snow is bad ... or down a steep shaded hill, so snow and ice can mean staying the month ;-). You know this time of year in the Midwest, Global Warming can be a good thing for shooters ;-).

My take from limited knowledge and in connection with your comment on the "next generation bolt", it that the vast majority of bolts were fine, as indicated by a many shooters having tens of thousands of rounds fired, and just a few bolts from a small lot (which the three of us might be the bulk of the failures or possible even the only field failures) had issues with the hardening. While at times the end user would wish for no changes in process, in fact any manufacturing process tends to be an on going process with small improvements trying to get the most wear/life possible for shooters etc. It sounds like the next generation bolts should be better than the old bolts with the old / initial hardening process that are currently working fine and thus a long term improvement. Again this is my take from general comments and should not be taken as fact.
Yes Next Generation is my translation from what Mike O.Said to me on the phone..You say Rockwell hardness and I say what?
 

JTinIN

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Yes Next Generation is my translation from what Mike O.Said to me on the phone..You say Rockwell hardness and I say what?

Nice translation, to the point and gets across the message nicely vs my conversation (which went great and worked well for me ;-) which started out at my end with grain structure in the fracture zone, depth of hardness, target Rockwell hardness, heat treatment, metal alloy etc. .... but have been doing failure analysis long before when you could Form 1 a machine gun for the $200 tax stamp ... but did not as then you made the rifle harder to sell and/or lost money (like doing a SBR today or a suppressor).

Put together a video of the shoot in October when took out the MM23eK with the new bolt and several of the guys and myself fired nearly two thousand rounds. At first the Wolf WPA ammo was a little sluggish and failed to cleanly eject, running the 20+ locking piece with the long barrel (the 20+ typically goes with the short barrel) took care of that issue and then after a bit every thing was running nicely with all ammo and the correct locking piece (not sure if something had to wear in on the new bolt, was a burr from the bolt failure and/or did not get the chambers cleaned that well after the last outing, being distracted by the bolt failure or what, but was working well now). The video starts when everything was running smoothly and a short test fire with Federal XM193 as a control. At 25 to 30 seconds in, note the hot barrel resting on the links to keep from burning the canvas (need to bring the high temp barrel bag next time). Also note at the end of the video when one of the guys catches the belt twist on the blanket and the belt breaks with with out stopping, have an ammo belt tray coming from Mike and should be easier to use than stuffing boxes (pain in cooler weather) or even nut sacks (which are not bad). Video is on top of the page at http://www.556beltfed.com

Thanks for the thread and appreciate the pointers and ideas from everyone.
 
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