M11/9 .380

[eddiep]

I’ve been shooting .380 in my M11/9 for 30 years and purchased the CF-W 9mmA bolt from Vegas SMG to try in both the .380 and 9mm uppers. I bought a .380 slow-fire kit in the late 80’s because of the high rate of fire of the 9mm, also I already re-loaded for the .380. It was as advertised (except for the ROF), functioned great, and I shot several thousand rounds over the years. I never thought about the 9mm bolt working with the .380 until some of the recent posts and I was also curious about how it would work.




I chronographed some .380 loads through the upper. Note: I am not recommending anyone use the loading data shown.



I then checked the ROF with a Pocket Pro II timer. I used 30rd mag dumps with zytel magazines. The 9mm OEM recoil spring was replaced a few years ago, the .380 spring is the original, and the CF-W 9mmA bolt spring was one I got from Tom and is modified to work with .380 and still provide good cushion with the 9mm.



My granddaughter (110 lbs soaking wet) did some of the shooting. Note how the fired cases ejected with the “A” bolt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JeSPEVZjYs&feature=youtu.be


The 9mm OEM bolt gave numerous failures to eject, the fired case being caught between the bolt and barrel. It was still easy to control, despite the high ROF. The CF-W 9mmA bolt combined with the .380 is the most controllable of any of the M11/9 combos I have fired, it is unbelievably smooth.

I want to thank contributors to this forum who have turned concepts into working solutions. Especially CoffeeFreak and Vegas SMG who have added so much to our hobby it is difficult to measure. For me, they have made a novelty toy into a fun toy.

 

[Mackjack]

Nice write up!

 

[Vegas SMG]

Thanks for appreciating. There’s a lot of paper weights made from failed prototypes.
After I completed a redesign of the A bolt, testing .380 in the M-11/9 was not done. Looks like you found one more use for this extremely versatile bolt. Great documentation and video! Thanks for taking the time to compile your results and share. Didn’t see video of the A bolt used in 9mm?

Looking at the A bolt’s 9mm ROF, I have to ask. Are you shooting .380 with the same unmodified recoil spring as shipped or did you shorten it? Depending on the customers request, the A bolt is configured and shipped one of three different ways. The chief difference is recoil spring and rod length.
M-11/9 in 9mm
M11-A1 in 9mm
M-11 in .380

 

[tlrgsxr]

Vegas, can you clarify, for a small frame gun, which spring (orange or not) and which length should be used for each caliber?

Thanks!

 

[eddiep]

This video is of 4 30rnd magazine dumps with different ammo using the CW-F 9mmA bolt from Tom.

https://youtu.be/tkGIj0w6j3k

ROF is in the 750rpm range, I want to verify when I get my upper back from Sam and will post data then. The spring is the same I used in the .380, one Tom sent and I cut some coils to until .380 factory ran reliably.

 

[Mackjack]

This video is of 4 30rnd magazine dumps with different ammo using the CW-F 9mmA bolt from Tom.

https://youtu.be/tkGIj0w6j3k

ROF is in the 750rpm range, I want to verify when I get my upper back from Sam and will post data then. The spring is the same I used in the .380, one Tom sent and I cut some coils to until .380 factory ran reliably.

Video is set to private

 

[eddiep]

Fixed

 

[Mackjack]

Fixed

Works now. Thx

 

[Vegas SMG]

Vegas, can you clarify, for a small frame gun, which spring (orange or not) and which length should be used for each caliber?

Thanks!

The “orange” spring is used for all A bolt applications.
Because it’s the only recoil spring I currently use, I no longer paint them for easy identification between the three I once used.
M-11/9 in 9mm is shipped with the recoil spring unclipped.
M11 .380 ships with 65 coils.
M11-A1 in 9mm I don’t remember off hand, but it’s posted somewhere on the site. I haven’t sold one for an M11-A1 in some time.

 

[Esox]

After I completed a redesign of the A bolt,

Vegas, I am a very proud owner of the first gen A bolt...I LOVE it! I'm just curious, what kind of changes were made to the second gen A bolt to allow it to run .380 and/or generally make it 'better'?

 

[Vegas SMG]

The answer is almost everything was changed. You probably won’t notice any difference with a side by side visual inspection of first and second gen A bolts. You’d need a micrometer to know what’s been changed and how much. Even then, only extremely tiny changes that were made throughout the A bolt. Tolerance stacking.

 

[Vegas SMG]

After some back channel dialog with eddiep I discovered he was using one of the “wonder” springs I sent him. These recoil springs are from a run of 400 custom wound springs I had made specifically for the M-11/9 bolt that didn’t work out. I call
Them “wonder” springs because I’ve wondered for several years what the hell I would do with them.

I never bothered checking wonder spring function with the new A bolt but apparently it works.

* For those who’ve expressed an interest in acquiring some of the “wonder“ springs... They’re boxed up in Las Vegas and I’m still enjoying time here in Idaho. I don’t anticipate returning there for about a month or more.

 

[Hey...]

What are the markings on the various A bolts?

I remember seeing at a friend’s house a prototype and gen1 bolt.

Now we have gen 2 A bolt in the wild.

For future reference can you state the different size/markings? Much appreciated.

 

[Vegas SMG]

Size will appear identical between all bolts. As stated above, you’ll need to very closely measure various points with a micrometer to notice any difference. Even then, the difference is extremely tiny if you can detect any size variation. I changed the font size on the bolts so I could tell the difference.

Latest and final revision.

Note font size on bolt.

Some bolts only exist as prototypes.

The .45 bolt at almost five pounds.

 

[MAC MAN]

That is some Cool stuff.

 

[ccosby]

Want to sell one of the prototype 45acp bolts?

 

[eddiep]

I had some time to check out the .380 with the 'A' bolt some more. The rate of fire is relatively (compared to the lighter bolts) unchanged with a hotter load. For comparison I used the handload listed above (115gr FMJ @914fps) and one with powder charged upped to 4.5gr (10% increase), velocity is 1010fps. 30rnd dumps, the 4.1gr charge was 686rpm & 686rpm (yes identical) and the4.5gr was 676rpm & 680rpm. I also ran a magazine of 124gr FMJ over the 4.1gr load and rpm was 684. I believe Tom was correct in his assessment that the 'A' is the most versatile single bolt you can own for the M11 series. The link is for a video of my granddaughter doing some of the testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3okUgC3vXAQ&feature=youtu.be