Manual safety or no on EDC pistols

[Gaujo]

I seen arguments back and forth on why one's better than the other. Curious to get people's perspectives. I come from a rifle and shotgun background where I try to never flag myself or others, so I'm still getting used to the idea of this firearm being pointed at my body!

 

[chili17]

I'm a 1911 guy so manual safeties are no big deal to me. It would be a non issue as far as bringing a pistol into action in my mind. Most time consuming action would be bring the handgun into action from concealment.

 

[sniperdoc]

I prefer them, but it's not mandatory

 

[Z06]

I can see both sides...

 

[Starvingboy]

I carry on an empty chamber. The risks of Negligent Discharge outweigh the 1/2 second it would take to chamber a round, should the need arise. You have to find your own balance though.

 

[LotsaTiques]

Condition 1, DA

 

[slimshady]

I carry on an empty chamber. The risks of Negligent Discharge outweigh the 1/2 second it would take to chamber a round, should the need arise. You have to find your own balance though.

How long does the 1/2 second extend to when you have one hand busy fighting off an attacker, or he managed to cut/shoot your arm badly enough you can't use it? Or in your haste you short stroke the slide or otherwise cause a failure to feed?

I prefer a manual safety as any number of things could cause the trigger to be pulled besides using your finger. Glocks and other striker fired guns with the "trigger dingus" can go off when re-holstering if you get a piece of shirttail caught in the gun, a bent over edge of the holster catches it, etc. IIRC the first generation of FOBUS holsters for the Glock had to be redesigned as something was catching the trigger during holstering. It is easy to understand how anything that hits the trigger is also going to hit the safety tab in the trigger as well. From what I understand it is mainly a drop safety, designed to keep the trigger from moving when the gun hits the ground and stops while the trigger wants to keep on moving.

I am also a 1911 guy from way back so a thumb safety is second nature. The Springfield Armory, Remington R51, and S&W "EZ" series grip safeties are an even more easy solution, grabbing the gun releases the safety.

That said, it's not a deal-breaker. My EDC is a Kahr P9, carried in plastic holsters precisely for the open top that never collapses or bends in to catch anything. Plus the Kahr striker design feels more like a DA only revolver than any other striker fired gun I have tried, so the long relatively heavy trigger pull is pretty safe all by itself. I still re-holster very carefully and generally keep it in the holster when putting it on.

My "bedside table gun" is an S&W SD9VE with a Crimson Trace picatinny mounted light for things that go bump in the night. It is also chamber loaded but since it never gets handled until I need to pull it out of the drawer I don't worry about setting it off by accident.

 

[Starvingboy]

You have to find your own balance. Myself, in my daily life, I judge the possibility of a negligent discharge is higher than having to fight off an attacker, etc, etc. Carrying with one in the pipe feels dangerous to ME, but you do you.

How long does the 1/2 second extend to when you have one hand busy fighting off an attacker, or he managed to cut/shoot your arm badly enough you can't use it? Or in your haste you short stroke the slide or otherwise cause a failure to feed?

I prefer a manual safety as any number of things could cause the trigger to be pulled besides using your finger. Glocks and other striker fired guns with the "trigger dingus" can go off when re-holstering if you get a piece of shirttail caught in the gun, a bent over edge of the holster catches it, etc. IIRC the first generation of FOBUS holsters for the Glock had to be redesigned as something was catching the trigger during holstering. It is easy to understand how anything that hits the trigger is also going to hit the safety tab in the trigger as well. From what I understand it is mainly a drop safety, designed to keep the trigger from moving when the gun hits the ground and stops while the trigger wants to keep on moving.

I am also a 1911 guy from way back so a thumb safety is second nature. The Springfield Armory, Remington R51, and S&W "EZ" series grip safeties are an even more easy solution, grabbing the gun releases the safety.

That said, it's not a deal-breaker. My EDC is a Kahr P9, carried in plastic holsters precisely for the open top that never collapses or bends in to catch anything. Plus the Kahr striker design feels more like a DA only revolver than any other striker fired gun I have tried, so the long relatively heavy trigger pull is pretty safe all by itself. I still re-holster very carefully and generally keep it in the holster when putting it on.

My "bedside table gun" is an S&W SD9VE with a Crimson Trace picatinny mounted light for things that go bump in the night. It is also chamber loaded but since it never gets handled until I need to pull it out of the drawer I don't worry about setting it off by accident.

 

[Jmacken37]

No external manual safety for me...

 

[glockman]

No safety (GLOCK), one in the pipe for me with the trigger fully covered. Take you piece to the range in condition 1 with the trigger inaccessible and try to get it to fire. I could not get it to fire, and it made me quite comfortable carrying in this condition.
I have trained on different platforms with a shot timer, and it takes me a lot more than a half a second of time to draw, chamber a round successfully, acquire my sights to get on target, and fire a accurate first shot than it does to just draw and get my sights on target to squeeze off that first accurate shot. I have practiced it many times with more than one manufacturer of firearm also. The shield with and without a safety, different Glocks chambered and unchambered, Sig 239 chambered and unchambered.... Personally, I would honestly be more worried about attempting to chamber a round in a high stress environment and having a A/D with my hand near the chamber or in front of the barrel. If confronted with a situation where I found it necessary to un-holster and fire my weapon in public, I am sure that the other person would be chambered or sufficiently armed and ready to do harm without affording me the time to get ready.
I have also attended knife training courses where I have seen where people with a simunitions gun holstered in a CCW carry position had NO chance to stop someone who was adequately trained with a edged weapon in fairly close proximity. Everyone in class tried, nobody could draw and stop him. And we knew it was coming at some point. To most it was very humbling.
As stated before though, you do you and do what you can do comfortably, and maybe more importantly, PRACTICE WHATEVER THAT IS.
A good man knows his limitations...

 

[Hey...]

A 1911 manual (thumb) safety is clicked off as the pistol is being drawn.

Beretta 92 or S&W 5906/6906/etc slide mounted safeties are a different story and aren’t as quick with one hand by instinct.

I carry a 1911 as it’s a .45auto and it’s carried/proven through generations. Since it’s my daily carry weapon I understand it 100% and practice my gear, it’s no slower than the Glocks I’ve owned. I just feel my Colt 1911 is the best weapon for me; that’s why I trust it daily.

 

[ScooterTrash]

You have to find your own balance. Myself, in my daily life, I judge the possibility of a negligent discharge is higher than having to fight off an attacker, etc, etc. Carrying with one in the pipe feels dangerous to ME, but you do you.

The 21' theory has been proven time and time again. The average person can cover 21' in the time it takes to draw and fire your weapon. That is a weapon with chambered round. Your .5 second to chamber a round is not possible, more like 1-3 seconds, empty chamber leaves you at a serious disadvantage if attacked unexpectedly. Again, my earlier seatbelt analogy. If carrying a loaded handgun feels "dangerous" to you.....might want to consider other options for defense.

 

[sniperdoc]

No matter what your preferred method of carry, you should regularly practice Drawing and Firing.

 

[Starvingboy]

Indeed. I agree with this sentiment whole heartedly. A good self defense class taught me that drawing a concealed pistol takes about 3-5 seconds, and doing it while "fighting" just isn't going to happen. Somewhat related: Shooting THROUGH a coat pocket is good for 1-2 rounds with an automatic, and will not set your coat on fire Any more than 1-2 shots and the slide gets tangled in the pocket lining and jams.

The 21' theory has been proven time and time again. The average person can cover 21' in the time it takes to draw and fire your weapon. That is a weapon with chambered round. Your .5 second to chamber a round is not possible, more like 1-3 seconds, empty chamber leaves you at a serious disadvantage if attacked unexpectedly. Again, my earlier seatbelt analogy. If carrying a loaded handgun feels "dangerous" to you.....might want to consider other options for defense.

 

[OldBesty]

make sure your holster is not (or has not become) defective in any way that would cause risk of the trigger being inadvertently engaged

I personally avoid appendix carry with round chambered, as an unintended discharge when carrying AIWB brings likelihood of being fatal. same for pocket carry

if unintended discharge occurs while carrying strong-side hip, most likely it only causes a superficial, soft-tissue wound that is non-life-threatening (there are no major "named" arteries in the lateral-most aspect of your hip or upper leg).

 

[glockman]

A 1911 manual (thumb) safety is clicked off as the pistol is being drawn.

Beretta 92 or S&W 5906/6906/etc slide mounted safeties are a different story and aren’t as quick with one hand by instinct.

I carry a 1911 as it’s a .45auto and it’s carried/proven through generations. Since it’s my daily carry weapon I understand it 100% and practice my gear, it’s no slower than the Glocks I’ve owned. I just feel my Colt 1911 is the best weapon for me; that’s why I trust it daily.

This to me also makes good sense. I carried a officers model 1911 for quite a time also, and training including live and a lot of dry firing repetitively made it muscle memory to draw and in the same stroke disengage the safely on the weapon without even taking the time to think about it. To me it is in a perfect position to be done so naturally. The shield, 92FS and others left me searching for the safety, or not completely disengaging it the first time as I am trying to rush things, and that takes valuable time away.
A shot timer puts a little bit of mustard on the situation as you are at least putting a time on the situation that you can judge yourself by. Nothing I would imagine like the stress felt in a real life attack.
But, then again, I am also not Tom Cruise in the back alley saying "hey homie, is that my briefcase....??" In real life, Hollywood doesn't translate well.

 

[OldBesty]

This to me also makes good sense. I carried a officers model 1911 for quite a time also, and training including live and a lot of dry firing repetitively made it muscle memory to draw and in the same stroke disengage the safely on the weapon without even taking the time to think about it. To me it is in a perfect position to be done so naturally. The shield, 92FS and others left me searching for the safety, and that takes valuable time away.

i agree with this too. and proper grip is with thumb riding down on the safety. there should be no problem for anyone properly trained and proficient with the 1911

 

[Gaujo]

No safety (GLOCK), one in the pipe for me with the trigger fully covered. Take you piece to the range in condition 1 with the trigger inaccessible and try to get it to fire. I could not get it to fire, and it made me quite comfortable carrying in this condition.
I have trained on different platforms with a shot timer, and it takes me a lot more than a half a second of time to draw, chamber a round successfully, acquire my sights to get on target, and fire a accurate first shot than it does to just draw and get my sights on target to squeeze off that first accurate shot. I have practiced it many times with more than one manufacturer of firearm also. The shield with and without a safety, different Glocks chambered and unchambered, Sig 239 chambered and unchambered.... Personally, I would honestly be more worried about attempting to chamber a round in a high stress environment and having a A/D with my hand near the chamber or in front of the barrel. If confronted with a situation where I found it necessary to un-holster and fire my weapon in public, I am sure that the other person would be chambered or sufficiently armed and ready to do harm without affording me the time to get ready.
I have also attended knife training courses where I have seen where people with a simunitions gun holstered in a CCW carry position had NO chance to stop someone who was adequately trained with a edged weapon in fairly close proximity. Everyone in class tried, nobody could draw and stop him. And we knew it was coming at some point. To most it was very humbling.
As stated before though, you do you and do what you can do comfortably, and maybe more importantly, PRACTICE WHATEVER THAT IS.
A good man knows his limitations...

This is very helpful. I will get my CZ-82 and practice with that vs a striker fired PF-9 with one in the pipe. Spending time thinking this through and discussing with y'all has been helpful and cleared up some foggy thinking on my part. Watching that recent "wellness check shooting" video made me realize you need to be ready to go one handed too.

https://nypost.com/2021/03/04/man-opens-fire-on-ohio-deputy-during-wellness-check-video/

In a little over 2 seconds this deputy managed to duck, take cover behind the wall, draw one handed and begin firing at her assailant. Pretty impressive to me.

My views are still evolving. As you've had a lot of training classes, if you had to recommend just one what would it be?

 

[sniperdoc]

Regarding the "Appendix Carry"; I would avoid it at all costs, yet a good many prefer it

 

[pjm204]

No manual safety, round in chamber. Generally carrying either a KT P3AT or Kahr CM9.