Max 11/15- IRM or ARRM, why?

[scottMO]

I’ve read abt each one, watched the videos, etc, but what’s the real difference?

IRM-plug and play.

ARRM- allows you to use an ar15/m16 stock and buffer system, but you have to drill a hole through the rear sight plate on your registered Mac 11?

Anyone shot both and what’s the difference in recoil ?

 

[Fishman]

Im going to do the IRM so that I can use it with my folding ACR stock

 

[chili17]

In stock form they are about the same ROF and recoil. You can play with the ARRM to make it slower and smoother. If you are going to shoot it suppressed or ever have a desire for caliber conversions, go with the ARRM. Of course, my standard answer is to get both.

 

[Fishman]

If you are going to [do] caliber conversions, go with the ARRM.

I dont understand why so many people seem think that changing the buffer weight is necessary for caliber conversions.

The ARRM is definitely the better option since ROF can be tuned, EXCEPT if you want a folding stock.

 

[A&S Conversions]

I dont understand why so many people seem think that changing the buffer weight is necessary for caliber conversions.

The ARRM is definitely the better option since ROF can be tuned, EXCEPT if you want a folding stock.

As the owner of M16 variant for 15 years, being able to change the ROF I find very advantageous. Sometimes I like a fast ROF, other times I like a slower ROF. As far as a folding stock, LAW Tactical makes a folding adapter for the AR-15/M16. I would think that their folding stock mechanism could be adapted to the Max-11/15.

7.62x39 has significantly more energy than 5.56X45. Additional buffer mass helps to smooth the operation. And additionally mass would be advantageous for higher energy rounds like 458 SOCOM. YMMV.

Scott

 

[Fishman]

Energy of the bullet has nothing to do with it. AR15s run perfectly fine with standard buffers and springs using 450 bushmaster ammo that has over double the energy of a 223. Using the ARRM to tune the ROF sounds helpful for all calibers, but its absolutely not required to do caliber conversions.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Energy of the bullet has nothing to do with it. AR15s run perfectly fine with standard buffers and springs using 450 bushmaster ammo that has over double the energy of a 223. Using the ARRM to tune the ROF sounds helpful for all calibers, but its absolutely not required to do caliber conversions.

This is a conversation about full auto. There is a huge difference between shooting one round at a time in an AR and full auto in a M16. Would there be some difference between the closed bolt system of the M16 and the open bolt system of the Max-11/15. I would think so. Have you tried to run 458 SOCOM in a Max-11/15 using the internal buffer system? It seems to me that chili has a great deal of experience with nonstandard configurations of the Max-11/15. He seems to think that the ARRM recoil system is a better fit. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. My question is do you have any actual experience with full auto Max-11/15 in nonstandard configurations with a Max-11/15 or is your opinion based on AR-15 semi automatic experience? I don't own a Max-11/15 yet, but I do have extensive experience with M16 nonstandard configurations. YMMV.

Scott

 

[Concorde]

As far as a folding stock, LAW Tactical makes a folding adapter for the AR-15/M16.

Yep, great add-on gadgets. I have them on a couple of AR15 SBRs. Putting the Law Tactical adapter on an ARRM MAX-11/15 would be a solution if a folding stock was important to someone.

 

[Fishman]

The physics behind the gun cycling are the same whether you're firing full auto or semi. The only big difference is that bolt bounce is a problem with full auto.

 

[TSPC]

The physics behind the gun cycling are the same whether you're firing full auto or semi. The only big difference is that bolt bounce is a problem with full auto.

Is the bolt bounce issue eliminated with an open bolt system?

 

[A&S Conversions]

Bolt bounce is not a concern for open bolt but different calibers with different power amount of power and recoil. So buffer and spring requirements can be different than standard.

Scott

 

[Fishman]

I understand why bolt bounce isnt an issue with an open bolt gun that has a fixed firing pin. but wouldnt it still pose a potential problem with an open bolt gun that uses a sear and hammer?

Is the max11/15 firing pin fixed to the carrier, or does it have a hammer in there somewhere?

 

[rhouston8]

ScottMO,

I had the same dilemma when my # came up. Jackie told me “ 90% of our Max11/15 customers choose IRM”.
That’s all I needed to know to be honest.

 

[fatal]

For me, if I was planning on geting a Max11/15 as my only rifle caliber upper, I'd get the ARRM version so I have one more variable to play with for experimentation.
However, since I'm also on the waitlist for the Tenko, I'm leaning towards the IRM version when my number comes up (which is about to happen going by the waitlist thread) since I've seen them running with multiple calibers and barrel lengths and more want to configure it one way and keep it there.
I also subjectively think the IRM with a folding stock looks amazing and has a distinct modernized cold war aesthetic going on.

 

[A&S Conversions]

I understand why bolt bounce isnt an issue with an open bolt gun that has a fixed firing pin. but wouldnt it still pose a potential problem with an open bolt gun that uses a sear and hammer?

Is the max11/15 firing pin fixed to the carrier, or does it have a hammer in there somewhere?

The Max-11/15 is open bolt. The firing pin is fixed in the carrier. There is no hammer in this open bolt system. The Colt M16 open bolt system did use a hammer that was released by the auto sear, but the Max-11/15 has no such hammer.

Scott

 

[FAL]

I drilled the hole today for mine. No problems and I look forward to shooting it with different buffer weights to play with the ROF...that's the main reason I decided to drill the hole.

 

[scottMO]

I drilled the hole today for mine. No problems and I look forward to shooting it with different buffer weights to play with the ROF...that's the main reason I decided to drill the hole.

Can I get a pic?

 

[Mr. Greg]

From a different perspective than what’s been discussed here so far: If youre a tiny baby man like me, the LOP with ARRM is just too much to shoot comfortably. The IRM and either a collapsed Lage stock or an adapter to put a LWRC UICW stock on it is perfect.

 

[A&S Conversions]

From a different perspective than what’s been discussed here so far: If youre a tiny baby man like me, the LOP with ARRM is just too much to shoot comfortably. The IRM and either a collapsed Lage stock or an adapter to put a LWRC UICW stock on it is perfect.

There are many PDW style AR stocks that can be adjusted to shortened LOP that could still have H1, H2, and H3 buffer.

Scott

 

[Vegas SMG]

...If you’re a tiny baby man like me...

You maybe small in stature, but you’ve got a huge subgun game. Wish you were still here shooting with us.