Mp5k

[JackFlak]

You want to sell me that grip don't you? On the cheap! Ha ha

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

So I take it that the metal sleeve is screwed on to the external threads. The set screw holds the orientation of the vertical forgrip?

Now that I think about it I have something similar to that piece on a M10 side charging upper with HK sights and a three lug muzzle. I’ll have to grab a k grip and see if I fits. So much knowledge here.

Yes that is basically how it works. Here, I broke it down for anyone curious. The entire assembly is just a 3/4x10 barrel extension that is held inside the mp5 K grip using a snap ring. The grip rotates 360 around the extension and the orientation of the grip can be locked in place using a hex set screw on the top that is threaded through a small flat piece of aluminum that slips into a channel on the wider end of the barrel extension and is held into the mp5 k grip with a pin and an E Clip.



The entire thing disassembles with a pair of snap ring pliers and anything you can use to tap the pin out.. (edge of the snap ring pliers works)









Note at this point the barrel extension itself is still not held into the grip and can be removed, the plate on the top is only used to tighten down the extension and lock it into the desired orientation. It needs the bushing and the snap ring installed over the muzzle end to lock it into the mp5k grip.








The grip is now fully assembled. Rotate it into the desired orientation and tighten down the hex screw on the top to lock it into place, or leave the hex screw slightly loose so the grip can be spun freely around the extension 360. I prefer the screw tightened ever so slightly as to prevent the grip from freely spinning loosely around the extension, but allows it to still be adjusted by hand into any orientation you want and it will stay in that position without flopping around.


I love these KGrip attachments, it is my favorite barrel extension for the 9mm MAC barrels… SWD only manufactured and marketed them in 9mm 3/4x10 but in the late 90s or early 2000s, “RPB” (not the original RPB, this was the one who sold masterpiece arms stuff) marketed them for the M10 .45 7/8x9 TPI… they are extremely rare in the 7/8 thread pitch, I have only ever seen 2 of them, and one was my own and I regrettably parted with it. I believe they had simply taken the original unit and bored out the barrel threads and rethreaded 7/8x9, I suppose anyone with the adequate skill level and proper machine tools could accomplish this.

If I was equipped to machine aluminum, this would be the first accessory I would reproduce.. the mp5k plastic grip is still readily available for cheap and the whole design is quite simple, it is a very ergonomic and aesthetically pleasing attachment IMO, likely why folks are willing to sell their soul and pay an arm, a leg, and a left testicle to get one when they pop up on GB these days.

 

[BlackBelt]

MIne (pictured in a post earlier in this thread) is different in that the barrel extension is not as long and does not protrude out past the front edge of the grip. The other one that I discarded was the same way, and they were not bought at the same time, but maybe a year or two apart.
I bought a lot of accessories back then and do not remenber where they came from. Maybe RPB (Russell) or whatever the other main iteration of "Cobray" parts seller was in business back then

 

[BlackBelt]

Back when the MP5k mac front grips came out I put together this M10 with Hk type accessories that mimic'd my actual Hk sear guns. This pic has a choate folder, which were typically used on MP5k's. The choate folders were labeled as either "Hk" or "Choate", but were all made by Choate regardless of labeling.
I believe the Hk sighted on this upper was made by Erik at the now long-defunct Autowerkes.
And the Hk style front grip came from a Mac accessory dealer.
It is a fun little package that I shot more than the MP5k that inspired it

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

MIne (pictured in a post earlier in this thread) is different in that the barrel extension is not as long and does not protrude out past the front edge of the grip. The other one that I discarded was the same way, and they were not bought at the same time, but maybe a year or two apart.
I bought a lot of accessories back then and do not remenber where they came from. Maybe RPB (Russell) or whatever the other main iteration of "Cobray" parts seller was in business back then

The one that you posted the picture of has been modified, somebody cut down the muzzle end of it, refinished it with some Matt black paint that is flaking off (these were anodized) and the E-clip pin was replaced with ringpull take down pin. All of the extensions sold by SWD and “RPB” (Russell weeks was just selling SWD leftovers) had the longer ribbed muzzle, anodized finish and the E clip style pin. Yours appears to have been cut down at one of the ribs (you can see that it still has one of the ribs remaining and originally had the same construction at the muzzle end) I have never seen another one like yours, but i have seen a LOT of these, hundreds of them.. yours is the only one I’ve ever seen that is cut down so short that it doesn’t extend past the plastic grip. If you had 2 like that, its possible that both were modified by the same person, probably because they didn’t like the look of the muzzle sticking out beyond the grip (or maybe because it’s easier to get the snap ring back on with less muzzle) but it honestly looks to have been cut down so short that the muzzle blast would potentially melt the plastic of the mp5k grip with enough sustained fire.


Yes those Hk Sight uppers came from autowerkes and are often marked AW on the upper as well.

The plastic coated steel folding stock arm portion was made by Choate on both HK and Choate marked examples, but the hardware was apparently not. HK made their folding stock hardware in house but subbed out the stock portion to choate for whatever reason, there has been a decades long debate as to which one is a better stock, with most arguing in favor of the HK marked examples. I think they are basically the same thing personally and that there is just a bit of HK bias, placebo effect due to the HK brand marked on it… but I digress lol

 

[BlackBelt]

After researching my records and catalogs I believe I bought at least one of the MP5k Mac grips in October of 1993. I dont have the invoice for the HK style grips, but I do have an invoice from 10/1/93 when I bought a couple of AK front grips. I would make a couple or several orders at a time back then. I bought one of the Hk grips in that same 3 week period around that time frame. I know this because back then (and for several years) I would travel for a couple of months and be back home for 2-3 weeks before hitting the road again.
The address on the invoice shows: MAC, 221 Hwy 68 N, Ducktown TN 37326.
I believe this is the catalog I ordered from. Too bad the products are line drawings and not actual photos. But in this line drawing, unlike the other line drawings of the same grip in other catalogs, there is no barrel extension protruding from the front grip

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

After researching my records and catalogs I believe I bought at least one of the MP5k Mac grips in October of 1993. I dont have the invoice for the HK style grips, but I do have an invoice from 10/1/93 when I bought a couple of AK front grips. I would make a couple or several orders at a time back then. I bought one of the Hk grips in that same 3 week period around that time frame. I know this because back then (and for several years) I would travel for a couple of months and be back home for 2-3 weeks before hitting the road again.
The address on the invoice shows: MAC, 221 Hwy 68 N, Ducktown TN 37326.
I believe this is the catalog I ordered from. Too bad the products are line drawings and not actual photos. But in this line drawing, unlike the other line drawings of the same grip in other catalogs, there is no barrel extension protruding from the front grip View attachment 42287

That is the mountain accessories corporation catalog, that was Sylvia Daniel’s company after they moved from Smyrna, GA to copperhill TN, they sold SWD/cobray accessories, “FMJ” guns and APA (all purpose ammo). The grip I posted in the disassembly pictures is also grip that was sold by Mountain accessories corporation (MAC) as well, as I have the box that it came in with the “MAC” paperwork that they taped on the boxes, it also has that same exact drawing on the box with the short muzzle end, the drawings they used were often inaccurate to what the items actually looked like, in all of the old catalogs from the same era that show an actual photo of the grip, it is consistent with all the others that have been posted in this thread and has the full length muzzle. (See attached)
I believe the catalog you scanned is from 1994, the one that has “CRIME BILL STRIKES” on the cover with a bunch of derringers, MAC went out of business after that catalog and all of the Cobray products were being sold by Et Cetera and then EXCALIBUR (all of these companies were just the Daniels using different business names). There was only 2 Mountain accessories Printed catalogs, one has Wayne and Sylvia on the cover at an airport and the other has derringers from the crime bill.

I have had those K-grips with packaging from basically every firm that they sold them through, starting with “cobray firearms Smyrna, GA” which was the distributor for SWD accessories in the late 80s (and the first company that sold the K Grip when it was introduced around 1988/89 or so), right before they became MAC (mountain accessories)… but they have always had the full length muzzle end that protrudes beyond the plastic, an anodized finish, and a pin held in by an E clip as far as I know. I don’t think they ever felt the need to alter or change the design of this accessory, but anything is possible.

All of these catalogs are from the same early 90s era when MAC (Daniel family) and RPB (weeks) would have been selling these. The prices are all the same except the one catalog with the 39.98 price tag, as this was the “shooters equipment supply” catalog and they were a distributor that was not closely associated with the manufacturer like the others were.

The first ad is RPB out of Avondale estates GA (Russell weeks) the grip pictured is actually a photo of the real grip and the box is the same box it always came in from all the different distributors, SWD was the only actual manufacturer of the grips, Cobray firearms, MAC, “RPB” Et Cetera, Excalibur were all just retail distribution businesses that the Daniel’s used to peddle SWD manufactured stuff in the late 80s early 90s.







This one shows it with no insert installed at all in the drawing because they would just copy and paste the artwork for the regular sp5 grip and reuse it, in this case, they copied it from the upper pictured above it and just removed the barrel end entirely.



If you look closely at the drawing in that MAC catalog, it does indeed extend beyond the plastic, just not as much as the other drawings typically do. It’s not cut back to the first rib, nearly an inch behind the end of the grip like the example that you have.






I have a small business specializing in vintage Cobray parts and accessories, these K Grips are one of the best selling items I deal in..so I’ve had a LOT of them, with all the different distributors labels on the boxes at one point or another.. most of them are marked Cobray Firearms out of Smyrna, or MAC out of copperhill TN, but they are always the exact same barrel extension inside the box, same anodized finish (color varies from flat black anodizing to a shiny purple anodizing), and the same construction. Same goes for the actual photos in the catalogs.

I am pretty confident the one you posted appears to have been modified at some point by someone, a few of the ribbed sections cut off the muzzle end, E clip pin replaced with some kind of ring pull (maybe you replaced the pin? Didn’t you say you were taking them apart?) and it looks like was painted with a flat black finish of some sort and it’s chipping off to expose the anodizing underneath it.. maybe you didn’t do it, but someone did…

I suppose it’s possible that for a very, very brief timeframe, someone was selling quantities of the grips that were modified like this, but if that’s the case, they are extremely rare in that configuration, and yours is the only one I have ever seen out of dozens if not hundreds of these things, that deviates from the original design and construction.

I think if you look at the photos of the others that have been posted in this thread, they have the full length muzzle as well… one of them even appears to have been threaded aftermarket, which is pretty cool.

It is surprising that they would have changed the tried and true design that they sold for years in a way that would likely damage itself with enough use, being as the open end of the muzzle is nearly an inch behind the edge of the plastic grip, exposing the polymer grip to the heat and flames of the muzzle blast. I can’t imagine they would have sold them like that, but there have been crazier (and crappier) parts and accessories sold under the Cobray brand, that’s for sure…

 

[BlackBelt]

Very interesting.
I didnt modify either grip. I do not remember exactly why I was taking the other one apart...but --
If I had to guess why I took the other one apart I was probably trying to figure out how to attach a suppressor (specifically Tac-Nine cans) by running a 10" m10/9 barrel through the grip. Obviously I didnt figure it out before I left the project...but I'm pretty certain that or something very close to that would be my only reason for de-constructing that grip.

Because my k-grips both had the same length barrel extensions and were not ordered at the same time I wasnt aware they were not common...and it probably wouldnt have concerned me anyway at that time because I was just a shooter enjoying the gear.
As always, I greatly appreciate and enjoy your sharing your vast knowledge on all things Mac, and especially your insight on the details.
If you ever write a book...put me down for a copy!

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Very interesting.
I didnt modify either grip. I do not remember exactly why I was taking the other one apart...but --
If I had to guess why I took the other one apart I was probably trying to figure out how to attach a suppressor (specifically Tac-Nine cans) by running a 10" m10/9 barrel through the grip. Obviously I didnt figure it out before I left the project...but I'm pretty certain that or something very close to that would be my only reason for de-constructing that grip.

Because my k-grips both had the same length barrel extensions and were not ordered at the same time I wasnt aware they were not common...and it probably wouldnt have concerned me anyway at that time because I was just a shooter enjoying the gear.
As always, I greatly appreciate and enjoy your sharing your vast knowledge on all things Mac, and especially your insight on the details.
If you ever write a book...put me down for a copy!View attachment 42294

Thanks, i have been intending to put together a book about the parts and accessories for some time now… I am always documenting everything I come across with photos and saving every single shotgun news ad and old catalog I can get. I’ve got nearly 200 issues of shotgun news now spanning 1978-1989!

I do sell a compilation of all the old catalogs in a self published, self printed, hand-bound book but haven’t run off a copy in a while and it’s a been over a month or 2 since anyone has ordered one, so I don’t have any copies printed up at the moment.

I will say your extension has been cut down nice and clean whoever did it. Though it would definitely concern me that enough sustained fire may start to melt away the plastic beyond the muzzle.

You can actually see that it’s the same muzzle end that is on all the others, with the flat ribs, and appears to be cut down just ahead of the final rib. The E-clip style pin has been replaced with a much more easily removable 2 piece threaded pin with a ringpull that was definitely much fancier and more expensive than anything the Daniels were using at the time.

I try to “never say never” when it comes to this stuff, as I’m still always learning and being surprised by things I’ve never seen when it comes to old MAC accessories.. but I will say with 99% certainty that I don’t think there was ever any sizable production run of those grips that were short at the muzzle end like that, though I really cannot see what purpose the shorter end would serve besides maybe being more aesthetically pleasing to whoever made it that way.

These are a great barrel accessory, the high price tag that they fetch now may be tempting… but you should hang onto it. I have regretted selling them in the past and not having one in my collection, despite getting big money for them, and now i have found one that I won’t get rid of.. especially since the cat is out of the bag so to speak and it is basically impossible to replace it for less than $2-300 without finding one for sale on a message board from someone who hasn’t seen them sell on GB in the last few years.

I’m sure there may be sturdier more ergonomic options on the market now from LAGE etc but im not really into the “modern” look and only like the old school MAC stuff and this is basically the only true old school Cobray accessory of its kind. I have the old Tim Bixler front grip, it’s similar in that it’s a barrel extension combined with a vertical foregrip… but it’s ugly as sin and bulky as hell. The mp5k grip is sleek and compact, I love that grip.

 

[woodenword]

Ok, now I’m going to have to check mine when I get back to AZ late next week, as i thought it was threaded the same as the barrel???

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Ok, now I’m going to have to check mine when I get back to AZ late next week, as i thought it was threaded the same as the barrel???

The one you posted in this thread appears to have been threaded aftermarket, but I don’t think these have enough meat on the muzzle end to accomodate 3/4x10 threads to match the barrel. It would have to be threaded with a finer thread pitch and then a 3/4x10 adapter threaded onto it for that to be the case. Yours does appear to have finer threads than 3/4x10 just from a cursory glance at the photo you posted.

 

[Hill Raiser]

Never knew these existed. Thanks for the lesson. Incredible knowledge source

 

[woodenword]

The one you posted in this thread appears to have been threaded aftermarket, but I don’t think these have enough meat on the muzzle end to accomodate 3/4x10 threads to match the barrel. It would have to be threaded with a finer thread pitch and then a 3/4x10 adapter threaded onto it for that to be the case. Yours does appear to have finer threads than 3/4x10 just from a cursory glance at the photo you posted.

I won’t be home till the 4th, so I’ll update as soon as I can! Got my curiosity up!

 

[nikmel420]

He’s talking about the SWD M11/9 K grip. Unfortunately they are long since discontinued, hard to find, desirable amongst machine gun owners, and occasionally fetch a very high price on GB when they pop up. the last one I listed on gunbroker went for over $500… and that is almost expected now for these when I list them.. I have sold maybe a half dozen in the last couple years on gunbroker and they generally fetch 3-400 bucks at the very least (listings started at $1 with a $100-150 reserve), though your mileage may vary… cool grips nonetheless and also happens to be my favorite grip for the M11/9, it swivels 360 and can be tightened down into any orientation with a hex key, very comfortable and aesthetically pleasing.

I have also had one for the M10 .45, which I believe was sold in the late 90s early 2000s by the “RPB” company of that era. The original sold by SWD was available in 9mm only.


View attachment 42254

That's the one

 

[SecondAmend]

For an upper for my M11-380, probably eight or more years ago I "assembled" a K grip on one of the slotted barrel extensions that Practical Solutions sold at the time. I've only shot using the K grip upper a few times. That upper is now used as a "storage case" for a bolt/recoil subassembly. For most .380 shooting, I prefer to use a standard upper with the support hand holding either the subgun silencer that came with the gun (plus a Bowers 'Griptastic' cover) or a slotted tube barrel extension that I bought from MLR back then.

Since I bought a Fleming .22 upper several years ago, .22 is about all I use the M11-380 for. Interestingly, the Fleming upper I have is the "long" version that has a horizontal lug on the underside of the front that can be cut off so that the upper can be used on a M11/9. The lug has a vertical hole that is threaded 1/2-28. If the lug is left on the upper for use on a M11-380 sized lower, a threaded rod can installed in the lug for use as a VFG, should one so choose.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

For an upper for my M11-380, probably eight or more years ago I "assembled" a K grip on one of the slotted barrel extensions that Practical Solutions sold at the time. I've only shot using the K grip upper a few times. That upper is now used as a "storage case" for a bolt/recoil subassembly. For most .380 shooting, I prefer to use a standard upper with the support hand holding either the subgun silencer that came with the gun (plus a Bowers 'Griptastic' cover) or a slotted tube barrel extension that I bought from MLR back then.

Since I bought a Fleming .22 upper several years ago, .22 is about all I use the M11-380 for. Interestingly, the Fleming upper I have is the "long" version that has a horizontal lug on the underside of the front that can be cut off so that the upper can be used on a M11/9. The lug has a vertical hole that is threaded 1/2-28. If the lug is left on the upper for use on a M11-380 sized lower, a threaded rod can installed in the lug for use as a VFG, should one so choose.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

You have the later version of the Fleming 380 upper, he took the M11/9 conversion kit and put a spacer on the bottom to make it fit on the M11 380. Always thought those were kinda weird/ugly looking, like he just ghetto rigged the m11/9 22 uppers to fit the smaller frame 380 gun lol

 

[SecondAmend]

You have the later version of the Fleming 380 upper, he took the M11/9 conversion kit and put a spacer on the bottom to make it fit on the M11 380. Always thought those were kinda weird/ugly looking, like he just ghetto rigged the m11/9 22 uppers to fit the smaller frame 380 gun lol

I suspect that the combo .22 upper was done as a cost reduction move. Cheaper to make a 11/9 version by just cutting the lug rearward protrusion off the combo upper than to have separate upper box frame parts for two uppers.

As for aesthetics, "MAC firearms" and "good looking" are rarely used in the same sentence without a negative term also being used.

MHO, YMMV, etc.

ETA: I specifically bought the "long" M11-380 Fleming .22 upper because I wanted the extra frontal length for my support hand.

 

[woodenword]

The one you posted in this thread appears to have been threaded aftermarket, but I don’t think these have enough meat on the muzzle end to accomodate 3/4x10 threads to match the barrel. It would have to be threaded with a finer thread pitch and then a 3/4x10 adapter threaded onto it for that to be the case. Yours does appear to have finer threads than 3/4x10 just from a cursory glance at the photo you posted.

So, it appears to be threaded pretty close to the OEM threads. Possibly by a previous owner. Looks like the paint is coming off.

 

[woodenword]

Also a flash hider threads on both.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Also a flash hider threads on both.

Oh yeah look at that looks like there’s enough meat on there to get 3/4x10 threads on it. I didn’t think there would be. Very cool!