My First Uzi

[az_outlaw]

My first Uzi has been approved (My first MG). Waiting for the stamp to hit the dealer. 105 days from pending to approved (9/4 to 12/18). I have a few other tax stamps for SBRs and suppressors and it took me a bit to save for the Uzi. Extremely excited

Group/Vector Uzi

My understanding is this machine gun is built to SMG spec, but may be out of spec to varying degrees. I am particularly concerned about the back receiver welds....how common would you say this happens?...
Is it a safety concern? Would I be better off to have this re-welded from somebody like BWE proactively?....I understand he does GREAT work but I am so impatient (being my first MG).

I have learned that using a buffer (like the Black Jacks) to increase ROF can increase back plate weld failures.? Has anyone used these long term without issue?

My initial ammo through it will be 124 NATO. Also have a BOWERS suppressor I plan on using.

I also ordered some spare parts. (Two top covers, lower complete pistol grip, and three full auto bolts with extractor, and a spare barrel). Anything else I should grab?

Any other advice for a first time owner? Thanks all. I have learned so much from this site (and the Uzi book)

Hope everyone has an amazing and safe New Years.

 

[nklf]

Congrats on the new Uzi. Like you I have a bunch of spare parts, but the only thing I have ever replaced is an extractor. Bolts are indestructible unless you fire millions of rounds a year. A Vector may or may not be in spec. If it had issues as originally built, they may have already been repaired over the past 20 years. I would not worry about the back welds unless you notice them starting to crack. A broken weld is not a catastrophic failure so wait until you have an issue to have them redone. Now if you have to do other major work on the gun, it makes sense to have the welds checked while it is in the shop but I would not send it in just for that. My advice is shoot the weapon and see if there are issues with it running. The most common problem is the top cover gap being out of spec. There are good tutorials on this site on how to measure and repair. If no issue when you test fire, simply enjoy the new toy. The only thing you need is magazines and lots of ammunition. Given the current state of supply I hope you stocked up on 9mm while you were waiting on the stamp.

 

[bigu2fan]

I have had a Group/Vector Uzi since about 2000 (bought it new directly from Vector) and have regularly shot it, putting at least 30K rounds of 9mm through it easily. No issues. I wouldn't worry about the back receiver welds breaking or cracking unless they actually do.

I also would not put any buffers in to increase the rate of fire, and I also would not convert it to .45 acp. I have no evidence that the buffer ramping up the rate of fire accelerates wear or is hard on the receiver, but logically that seems to be the case. Logically it also seems to be the case that .45 acp would accelerate wear or would be hard on the receiver.

The only thing that has worn out on my gun has been an extractor, which I replaced in recent months with a new one that I got years back from RTG. I should say that I have regularly swapped out recoil springs. I might grab a couple of extra recoil springs. The 32 round IMI and German surplus mags are also very good.

If your gun has serious trunion/receiver alignment issues, you should be able to tell immediately because it will jam/be very finicky with ammo. Swapping parts out might mitigate this to some extent, but probably not.

My Uzi has not been choosy over the last roughly 20 years with ammo. It has liked CCI Blazer Brass, Sellier & Bellot, Prvi Partisan, Federal, Winchester, Remington and Geco. I also have used IMI 158 grain ammo and the so-called Special K ammo from Alabama Ammo in years past with a suppressor. Just keeps on running and running.

 

[az_outlaw]

Thanks all....guess I am just a little paranoid about being my first MG.

I think the wait for the stamp to be mailed is harder than the initial wait to be approved LOL.

And I have no plans to convert the caliber. 9MM it is and will be.

 

[mattnh]

Congrats - superb choice for MG #1 !!!

 

[nklf]

I hear you on the wait for the post office. I had one take 6 weeks which was just adding to otherwise long wait. And that was before the current post office BS. I have a .45 conversion and don't really like the Uzi in 45. So I would not recommend it. However, if you come across a .22 conversion they are a lot of fun. Mine has proved to be quite reliable in 22.

 

[Strangeranger]

FWIW a lot of the cracking of the welds at the rear of the receivers is reported to occur with .45 conversion kits.
It was designed as a 9mm, keep it a 9mm.

 

[b_saan]

Even more fun, 45 conversion kit with a BlackJack buffer...

 

[ATCDoktor]

I’ve had my Full sized Group Industries Uzi for 10 years, as above, no issues except a broken extractor.

I recently bought a railed top cover from Practical Solutions and had it out the other day sighting it in with a nondescript red dot sight.

Easy to keep just about all of them on the head of a steel silhouette at 15 yards (till the target starts to fall):
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RARFap4VtB0

 

[az_outlaw]

Thanks everyone! 13 days now waiting for the stamp to arrive at dealer! So excited.

 

[mike]

Congratulations on your first machine gun. I find that without a small buffer like the 3/4 one mine runs very choppy if I mix ammo. If I stay with one type of good Ammo it’s fine but slow like it should be. But throwing in the 1 1/4 one is a blast to shoot from time to time.

 

[tonelar]

I’ve been saving up forever to get an open bolt uzi. Congrats!

 

[pmf]

I bought one directly for Vector in 2002 right before they ran out. First machine gun and a good one. $2750 ... couldn't believe i was paying so much for a gun. Any ball ammo runs fine in it. I have a 45 conversion that I rarely use. I also have a 22 conversion that I gave up on -- too much tinkering, cleaning mags after every use, etc. 22 is fun full auto, but I never got an entire 25 rounds off without a jam. And its really picky about ammo. Get some buffers and experiment. Its such a rugged gun, I don't think you're endangering it. Just don't go larger than 1.4" or the gun will run away (keep shooting when you take your finger off the trigger). With no buffer, its around 600 rpm, which I find just fine. With 3/4 it goes up to around 800 which some feel is smoother. Try .125" for grins. You know what open bolt means, right? Cock the bolt back all the way until it remains open, and then pull the trigger.

I've posted this before, but here's the story of my first machine gun purchase.

The story of my first NFA purchase ...

It was early July of 2002. I'd just completed a year-long difficult job. It was behind me and I was done. I decided to treat myself to a NIB full size Vector uzi. A guy that I found on this web site was doing a group sale from Vector for $2750 per gun. I decided to go for it, even though I couldn't believe I was paying that much for a firearm. I got a hold of the dealer in Florida, Keith, and said I wanted in. He told me to find an FFL in my state (Virginia) for him to transfer the gun to. I found a guy, John, close to where I live and made an appointment. The guy offered to help me fill out the paperwork once the gun transferred to him. The guy literally had at least two of almost every machine gun you can think of. He said that he'd heard that Fairfax county, where I live, had some kind of survey you have to complete before the Sheriff signs.

So a couple weeks go by Vector sells out of full sized uzis. The price jumps to $4000. I call Keith to ask about what's up with my gun. 'Yes, I have it, but I'm having some problem renewing my FFL call me back next week'. Next time around 'I'm still working with ATF on my FFL' Next time -- 'I can't send it right now because there's been a death in the family'. Another week later 'I'm so busy with my job that I can't get to the Post Office ... would you like your money back?' Yeah, refund my $2750 so you can sell in for $4000. So I call John and explain the situation and he says 'I'll straighten this asshole out for you'. A few weeks later he calls and says 'I've got your gun, come by and we'll fill out the paperwork'.

I fill out the paperwork, get the passport photos, and go to the Police Department to get fingerprinted. I then call the Sheriff's office and explain that I want the Sheriff to sign the form, but I've heard there's a survey that needs to be filled out. "Nope, never heard of any survey'. So I send it in and six weeks later it comes back, unsigned, with a note saying please fill out the enclosed survey. There's questions about my back ground, do I own a gun safe, do I have children in the house, etc. So I fill it out and six weeks later my signed form comes back.

I send the $200 check, forms and photos to Chicago. The check gets cashed almost instantly. The government is efficient at some things. Months go by and once again its early July -- a year later. I get a call from John -- your forms have been processed, come pick up your gun. Its July 3. Over the past year I've bought ammo, mags, spare parts kits, etc. I head to his office with about 10 loaded mags in the car. He tells me the last step is to go through NICS. WTF? Hasn't the FBI been checking me out for the last half a year? And at that time, I NEVER cleared NICS on the first try. Sure enough, I don't clear and they tell him they'll call back. A couple hours pass. Finally, John says he'll call them back. Sorry, our system is down and we'll be closed for July fourth. So, I go home, empty handed. On the fifth of July, I finally have the gun in hand and head down to the local range where I promptly shoot the floor learning what the term 'open bolt' means.

As this process drug on, I got my wife pregnant and she had the baby in mid-June of that year. The takeaway I got was that it’s quicker to create a human being than it is to buy a machine gun.

 

[mike]

Nice story

 

[glockman]

I bought one directly for Vector in 2002 right before they ran out. First machine gun and a good one. $2750 ... couldn't believe i was paying so much for a gun. Any ball ammo runs fine in it. I have a 45 conversion that I rarely use. I also have a 22 conversion that I gave up on -- too much tinkering, cleaning mags after every use, etc. 22 is fun full auto, but I never got an entire 25 rounds off without a jam. And its really picky about ammo. Get some buffers and experiment. Its such a rugged gun, I don't think you're endangering it. Just don't go larger than 1.4" or the gun will run away (keep shooting when you take your finger off the trigger). With no buffer, its around 600 rpm, which I find just fine. With 3/4 it goes up to around 800 which some feel is smoother. Try .125" for grins. You know what open bolt means, right? Cock the bolt back all the way until it remains open, and then pull the trigger.

I've posted this before, but here's the story of my first machine gun purchase.

The story of my first NFA purchase ...

It was early July of 2002. I'd just completed a year-long difficult job. It was behind me and I was done. I decided to treat myself to a NIB full size Vector uzi. A guy that I found on this web site was doing a group sale from Vector for $2750 per gun. I decided to go for it, even though I couldn't believe I was paying that much for a firearm. I got a hold of the dealer in Florida, Keith, and said I wanted in. He told me to find an FFL in my state (Virginia) for him to transfer the gun to. I found a guy, John, close to where I live and made an appointment. The guy offered to help me fill out the paperwork once the gun transferred to him. The guy literally had at least two of almost every machine gun you can think of. He said that he'd heard that Fairfax county, where I live, had some kind of survey you have to complete before the Sheriff signs.

So a couple weeks go by Vector sells out of full sized uzis. The price jumps to $4000. I call Keith to ask about what's up with my gun. 'Yes, I have it, but I'm having some problem renewing my FFL call me back next week'. Next time around 'I'm still working with ATF on my FFL' Next time -- 'I can't send it right now because there's been a death in the family'. Another week later 'I'm so busy with my job that I can't get to the Post Office ... would you like your money back?' Yeah, refund my $2750 so you can sell in for $4000. So I call John and explain the situation and he says 'I'll straighten this asshole out for you'. A few weeks later he calls and says 'I've got your gun, come by and we'll fill out the paperwork'.

I fill out the paperwork, get the passport photos, and go to the Police Department to get fingerprinted. I then call the Sheriff's office and explain that I want the Sheriff to sign the form, but I've heard there's a survey that needs to be filled out. "Nope, never heard of any survey'. So I send it in and six weeks later it comes back, unsigned, with a note saying please fill out the enclosed survey. There's questions about my back ground, do I own a gun safe, do I have children in the house, etc. So I fill it out and six weeks later my signed form comes back.

I send the $200 check, forms and photos to Chicago. The check gets cashed almost instantly. The government is efficient at some things. Months go by and once again its early July -- a year later. I get a call from John -- your forms have been processed, come pick up your gun. Its July 3. Over the past year I've bought ammo, mags, spare parts kits, etc. I head to his office with about 10 loaded mags in the car. He tells me the last step is to go through NICS. WTF? Hasn't the FBI been checking me out for the last half a year? And at that time, I NEVER cleared NICS on the first try. Sure enough, I don't clear and they tell him they'll call back. A couple hours pass. Finally, John says he'll call them back. Sorry, our system is down and we'll be closed for July fourth. So, I go home, empty handed. On the fifth of July, I finally have the gun in hand and head down to the local range where I promptly shoot the floor learning what the term 'open bolt' means.

As this process drug on, I got my wife pregnant and she had the baby in mid-June of that year. The takeaway I got was that it’s quicker to create a human being than it is to buy a machine gun.

You didn't go home empty handed. You had your 10 loaded mags to keep you company...

 

[az_outlaw]

Thanks again for all of the advice, love this forum. I am now waiting 18 days for my tax stamp to arrive, driving me crazy!!

 

[glockman]

I bought one directly for Vector in 2002 right before they ran out. First machine gun and a good one. $2750 ... couldn't believe i was paying so much for a gun. Any ball ammo runs fine in it. I have a 45 conversion that I rarely use. I also have a 22 conversion that I gave up on -- too much tinkering, cleaning mags after every use, etc. 22 is fun full auto, but I never got an entire 25 rounds off without a jam. And its really picky about ammo. Get some buffers and experiment. Its such a rugged gun, I don't think you're endangering it. Just don't go larger than 1.4" or the gun will run away (keep shooting when you take your finger off the trigger). With no buffer, its around 600 rpm, which I find just fine. With 3/4 it goes up to around 800 which some feel is smoother. Try .125" for grins. You know what open bolt means, right? Cock the bolt back all the way until it remains open, and then pull the trigger.

I've posted this before, but here's the story of my first machine gun purchase.

The story of my first NFA purchase ...

It was early July of 2002. I'd just completed a year-long difficult job. It was behind me and I was done. I decided to treat myself to a NIB full size Vector uzi. A guy that I found on this web site was doing a group sale from Vector for $2750 per gun. I decided to go for it, even though I couldn't believe I was paying that much for a firearm. I got a hold of the dealer in Florida, Keith, and said I wanted in. He told me to find an FFL in my state (Virginia) for him to transfer the gun to. I found a guy, John, close to where I live and made an appointment. The guy offered to help me fill out the paperwork once the gun transferred to him. The guy literally had at least two of almost every machine gun you can think of. He said that he'd heard that Fairfax county, where I live, had some kind of survey you have to complete before the Sheriff signs.

So a couple weeks go by Vector sells out of full sized uzis. The price jumps to $4000. I call Keith to ask about what's up with my gun. 'Yes, I have it, but I'm having some problem renewing my FFL call me back next week'. Next time around 'I'm still working with ATF on my FFL' Next time -- 'I can't send it right now because there's been a death in the family'. Another week later 'I'm so busy with my job that I can't get to the Post Office ... would you like your money back?' Yeah, refund my $2750 so you can sell in for $4000. So I call John and explain the situation and he says 'I'll straighten this asshole out for you'. A few weeks later he calls and says 'I've got your gun, come by and we'll fill out the paperwork'.

I fill out the paperwork, get the passport photos, and go to the Police Department to get fingerprinted. I then call the Sheriff's office and explain that I want the Sheriff to sign the form, but I've heard there's a survey that needs to be filled out. "Nope, never heard of any survey'. So I send it in and six weeks later it comes back, unsigned, with a note saying please fill out the enclosed survey. There's questions about my back ground, do I own a gun safe, do I have children in the house, etc. So I fill it out and six weeks later my signed form comes back.

I send the $200 check, forms and photos to Chicago. The check gets cashed almost instantly. The government is efficient at some things. Months go by and once again its early July -- a year later. I get a call from John -- your forms have been processed, come pick up your gun. Its July 3. Over the past year I've bought ammo, mags, spare parts kits, etc. I head to his office with about 10 loaded mags in the car. He tells me the last step is to go through NICS. WTF? Hasn't the FBI been checking me out for the last half a year? And at that time, I NEVER cleared NICS on the first try. Sure enough, I don't clear and they tell him they'll call back. A couple hours pass. Finally, John says he'll call them back. Sorry, our system is down and we'll be closed for July fourth. So, I go home, empty handed. On the fifth of July, I finally have the gun in hand and head down to the local range where I promptly shoot the floor learning what the term 'open bolt' means.

As this process drug on, I got my wife pregnant and she had the baby in mid-June of that year. The takeaway I got was that it’s quicker to create a human being than it is to buy a machine gun.

I was just busting your chops in the last post. I actually kind of know how you feel. The short version of my story is I bought my UZI in 2014 as a 2 stamp deal with a registered bolt, and a MK9 suppressor. I was totally skeptical that it was a legit transferable as I found it on Armslist one night at work around 11 p.m. for a very good price. I had no idea what I was doing as it was my first MG purchase with no prior experience or research, just a good deal that I kind of fell on, and he wasn't aware that it was just the bolt that was registered and we tried to use the OAL of the gun and its serial number to do the transfer. Obviously, it was denied as it is a bolt gun, but the suppressor stamp came back to him as it was filled out properly. So, I then owned a suppressor for a gun that I could not take home. Boy, that sure was a fun day.
We went to the local ATF field office in Denver after making an appointment the next week, and spoke with a agent who told us that there wasn't much he could do for us as the transfers are not handled locally. The seller was a retired policeman and firearms instructor, and somehow talked the agent into calling the inspector to see what the issue was with the transfer. He got the answers for us that it needed to be the manufacturer who did the bolt modifications- not the manufacturer of the host gun, serial number off of the bolt- not the host gun, and the bolt length- not the gun length. Corrections were made and forms resubmitted. Got my stamp and my gun 2 weeks to the day later when the seller got the stamp for it.

I second and third all the advice on the buffers. Tons of fun in those. Use the big one. Bring lots of ammo to the range with you.

 

[pmf]

You didn't go home empty handed. You had your 10 loaded mags to keep you company...

OK, so you're one of those 'the glass is half full types' aren't you?

 

[Roaster72]

My understanding is this machine gun is built to SMG spec, but may be out of spec to varying degrees. I am particularly concerned about the back receiver welds....how common would you say this happens?...
Is it a safety concern? Would I be better off to have this re-welded from somebody like BWE proactively?

I've owned mine for over a decade now and have thousands of rounds through it without a hitch. This includes over 5,000 rounds of Egyptian 9mm, possibly the nastiest 9mm ever imported. A significant amount of those rounds were with the medium (i believe 3/4 inch) buffer. I've found with some ammo, the buffer makes the gun feel smoother.

I believe Ralph Merrill (owner of Vector) admitted they had a bad welder and some guns were affected. This is probably only a handful out of the 4,000 or so Vector Uzis. Here on the forum I can only recall two people reporting problems (Vegas SMG and the NIB guy).

I'd recommend skipping the 45 conversion. Not because I think they cause failure, but instead because of the cost and the fact that it isn't that good. My gun came with the conversion and I've used it once. I found it to be too choppy. What with the price they are bringing now, I'd skip it. I'm not a fan of 22 conversions, but tuned correctly, the Uzi conversion is one of the best. If you have kids I would recommend one. My two sons and their friends have run at least a case through mine.