Need a 380 m11 receiver made

[strobro32]

Right. But someone has to convert the striker fired uppers to hammer fired.

 

[Jtm35a2]

Right. But someone has to convert the striker fired uppers to hammer fired.

I was just making the point that for a third the price you get a running rifle if you don’t care about shooting it in fun mode

 

[strobro32]

Fun mode is the only mode. No one wants to pull the trigger 165 times before a click.

 

[Jtm35a2]

Fun mode is the only mode. No one wants to pull the trigger 165 times before a click.

lol, I was thinking 275 times ??

 

[strobro32]

Ditto.

 

[slimshady]

There's been many a year since I looked at one, but I seem to recall the AM 180 you could play with the trigger frame and let it slide back and forth to basically make a slide fire stock out of it. Or come up with an frt for it.

 

[Jtm35a2]

If I end up having success with this adapter I’ll buy one of val’s rifles. I like having multiple guns that use the same magazine

 

[A&S Conversions]

If I end up having success with this adapter I’ll buy one of val’s rifles. I like having multiple guns that use the same magazine

If you are making a Post Sample, why can’t you fix the firing pin and convert the semi auto? Just a thought.

The bottom of Craig’s bolt in the AM15 is about where the bottom of a standard 5.56 is and his buffer and spring goes into the receiver extension (buffer tube) with a spacer. I did wonder, if the buffer needs a spacer, I wonder if the spring/buffer for the AM15 would fit inside the M11/NINE frame?

Scott

 

[Jtm35a2]

If you are making a Post Sample, why can’t you fix the firing pin and convert the semi auto? Just a thought.

The bottom of Craig’s bolt in the AM15 is about where the bottom of a standard 5.56 is and his buffer and spring goes into the receiver extension (buffer tube) with a spacer. I did wonder, if the buffer needs a spacer, I wonder if the spring/buffer for the AM15 would fit inside the M11/NINE frame?

Scott

I am not wanting another post sample. Hoping to build this adapter in a fashion that it’s not a mg in itself. Building an upper that’s self contained, recoil mechanism as part of the upper, could be interpreted as a stand alone mg.
I’m hoping to accomplish two things:
1. No way can this fire without being installed in a modified lower receiver.
2. Getting the 850 rpm vs 1400 rpm by using the gen 2 ar15 based buffer system.

 

[A&S Conversions]

I am sorry that I was not clear, like the M16 version, your adapter would need a hole through it for the buffer unit. If that unit is short enough behind the AM15, it could bare on the back plate of the M11/NINE receiver. If it was a little too short you could add a spacer, like Craig did in the M16. With the popularity of the M11/NINEs, especially if you didn’t have t cut a hole in the back of the transferable receiver, this adapter might have more appeal to owners.

To be clear, like the Lage uppers, once you have a design, adapting the design to the three Mac style RRs should be easy enough. It is my understanding that there are over double the number of transferable M11/NINEs than M10s. It is also my understanding that there are over double the number of M10s as M11s. The original Max-11/15 uppers use a standard AR bolt carrier because there is enough room in the M11/NINE receiver to have a custom recoil system Lage patented such that no Task hole is required. Only that upper had a Task option. The Max-10/15 and the Max-11A1 have custom carriers that use the same internal recoil system as the internal Max-11/15.

I would encourage you to reconsider. Submitting your designs aren’t hard, just time consuming. I envy you. I don’t have a 07/02, so I had to submit two transferable M10s because they now require submission of a complete firearm including the new design. While I get that submission is a PITA, it isn’t difficult.

The process is so much harder since the FATD changed their submission guidelines. It used to be that you could submit your item and the FATD would use their reference collection receiver so you didn’t have to ship a firearm. That all changed in 2019. Since then they require a complete firearm including the item you wished a determination for. There have also been changes to the shipping rules for common carriers. DHL will not ship firearms. UPS will no longer accept machine guns, even from SOT holders. FedEx will ship machine guns, but only overnight, and only to or from FFL holders. USPS makes no distinction between Title I or Title II firearms. Their distinction is concealable or long guns. A FFL holder can mail concealable firearms (anything with a rifled barrel over 16”) but private individuals can only ship long guns. There is a provision for private individuals to ship to Government Agencies with the power of arrest. But my local Post Office took the position that that provision was for law enforcement agents only. So I had to ship them with 16” barrels.

So make your adapter. Play with it and get it dialed in. Once you have moved on to another project, mail it in and get a determination. It is my understanding that the whole point of an 07/02 is to make machine guns for Government Agencies (as they are the only ones who can buy Post ‘86 machine guns. I would think that there would also be coverage for making accessories for machine guns using Post Samples in the design process. I don’t know how many machine guns you have made for Government Agencies, but I would imagine that a “reasonable person” would understand making a $500 to $1,000 Post Sample instead of buying a $10,000 transferable for the purpose of developing products for the transferable market. Things are pretty good right now concerning ATF scrutiny. But there could come a day where the ATF starts looking at small 07/02 manufacturers with reference collections but no products based on any of those design in said reference collection. Somehow, I would think that it would be difficult to convince a “reasonable person” that such a reference collection was not a collection improvement, which could have “imperial entanglements”. I would think that even small scale products would make such a collection seem more reasonable. Your guns, your choice. I think that there would be a small market. But this certainly seems like a good cover for all three variants to be in your reference collection. And you never know where this could lead. Just a thought.

Years before I started working on the Tenko adapter, and before PTR started to make a 7.62X39 roller delayed, I thought of making a sleeve for the roller delayed receiver such that an AK barreled trunnion could be installed into a HK style receiver as I had a Fleming sear and I had cases of the Yugo brass cased 7.62X39. That led me to the M10 receiver and what other firearms mechanisms I could adapt to the M10. That led to the Tenko adapter. Prices continue rising for transferable machine guns. As prices rise, adapting other firearm mechanisms to the Mac style RR. The Browning belt fed guns would be challenging to adapt to an M10. But what about the M60? A new M60-E6 or E4 parts kit is less than $10,000. Add an 80% receiver and an adapt that to the M10. Even if you doubled the cost of the parts, a M10-E6 wouldn’t be a big market, but it would be half the cost of a low miles Marmont gun without the upgrades. There wouldn’t be a big market for such an upper. But if you bought two 80% receivers, you could add a M60-E6 and the ammo to shoot it, to your reference collection by just selling two or three of these conversion uppers. I bet there are a couple collectors who would buy a M10, just for such an upper. Good luck with your adapter project, whatever you decide to do. I will stop bugging you now, I promise.

Scott

 

[Jtm35a2]

I am sorry that I was not clear, like the M16 version, your adapter would need a hole through it for the buffer unit. If that unit is short enough behind the AM15, it could bare on the back plate of the M11/NINE receiver. If it was a little too short you could add a spacer, like Craig did in the M16. With the popularity of the M11/NINEs, especially if you didn’t have t cut a hole in the back of the transferable receiver, this adapter might have more appeal to owners.

To be clear, like the Lage uppers, once you have a design, adapting the design to the three Mac style RRs should be easy enough. It is my understanding that there are over double the number of transferable M11/NINEs than M10s. It is also my understanding that there are over double the number of M10s as M11s. The original Max-11/15 uppers use a standard AR bolt carrier because there is enough room in the M11/NINE receiver to have a custom recoil system Lage patented such that no Task hole is required. Only that upper had a Task option. The Max-10/15 and the Max-11A1 have custom carriers that use the same internal recoil system as the internal Max-11/15.

I would encourage you to reconsider. Submitting your designs aren’t hard, just time consuming. I envy you. I don’t have a 07/02, so I had to submit two transferable M10s because they now require submission of a complete firearm including the new design. While I get that submission is a PITA, it isn’t difficult.

The process is so much harder since the FATD changed their submission guidelines. It used to be that you could submit your item and the FATD would use their reference collection receiver so you didn’t have to ship a firearm. That all changed in 2019. Since then they require a complete firearm including the item you wished a determination for. There have also been changes to the shipping rules for common carriers. DHL will not ship firearms. UPS will no longer accept machine guns, even from SOT holders. FedEx will ship machine guns, but only overnight, and only to or from FFL holders. USPS makes no distinction between Title I or Title II firearms. Their distinction is concealable or long guns. A FFL holder can mail concealable firearms (anything with a rifled barrel over 16”) but private individuals can only ship long guns. There is a provision for private individuals to ship to Government Agencies with the power of arrest. But my local Post Office took the position that that provision was for law enforcement agents only. So I had to ship them with 16” barrels.

So make your adapter. Play with it and get it dialed in. Once you have moved on to another project, mail it in and get a determination. It is my understanding that the whole point of an 07/02 is to make machine guns for Government Agencies (as they are the only ones who can buy Post ‘86 machine guns. I would think that there would also be coverage for making accessories for machine guns using Post Samples in the design process. I don’t know how many machine guns you have made for Government Agencies, but I would imagine that a “reasonable person” would understand making a $500 to $1,000 Post Sample instead of buying a $10,000 transferable for the purpose of developing products for the transferable market. Things are pretty good right now concerning ATF scrutiny. But there could come a day where the ATF starts looking at small 07/02 manufacturers with reference collections but no products based on any of those design in said reference collection. Somehow, I would think that it would be difficult to convince a “reasonable person” that such a reference collection was not a collection improvement, which could have “imperial entanglements”. I would think that even small scale products would make such a collection seem more reasonable. Your guns, your choice. I think that there would be a small market. But this certainly seems like a good cover for all three variants to be in your reference collection. And you never know where this could lead. Just a thought.

Years before I started working on the Tenko adapter, and before PTR started to make a 7.62X39 roller delayed, I thought of making a sleeve for the roller delayed receiver such that an AK barreled trunnion could be installed into a HK style receiver as I had a Fleming sear and I had cases of the Yugo brass cased 7.62X39. That led me to the M10 receiver and what other firearms mechanisms I could adapt to the M10. That led to the Tenko adapter. Prices continue rising for transferable machine guns. As prices rise, adapting other firearm mechanisms to the Mac style RR. The Browning belt fed guns would be challenging to adapt to an M10. But what about the M60? A new M60-E6 or E4 parts kit is less than $10,000. Add an 80% receiver and an adapt that to the M10. Even if you doubled the cost of the parts, a M10-E6 wouldn’t be a big market, but it would be half the cost of a low miles Marmont gun without the upgrades. There wouldn’t be a big market for such an upper. But if you bought two 80% receivers, you could add a M60-E6 and the ammo to shoot it, to your reference collection by just selling two or three of these conversion uppers. I bet there are a couple collectors who would buy a M10, just for such an upper. Good luck with your adapter project, whatever you decide to do. I will stop bugging you now, I promise.

Scott

It’s funny you sent this. I laid in bed last night thinking about the possibility of submission. I’m leaning towards keeping the group updated on my progress, but with minimal pics, heck I can’t figure out how to post here anyway. I’m hoping that my project will be successful. The thought was maybe once I have a working design to approach Sam, Richard, or similar to form a partnership with their massive production capabilities to see if this is feasible to bring to market. I doubt it would be profitable, but I would like to share it with the community.
Unfortunately, unless someone else wants to do it, I am staying with the “task” hole in the back. I want that lower rate of fire. If you follow the am180 rifle platform, nobody has had success in slowing them down. The key is the external recoil mechanism. There’s not enough room in a am180 receiver to do that, and a mac is no bigger.
I also believe the hole in the back should be one of the factors that also act as a “limiter” to installing on a unmodified semiauto gun. The atf might be able to pin it onto a semi, but it won’t do anything. I am actually even thinking about designing into it a bar that drops down into the fcg area and rides where the sear trip normally sits. Limiting it’s use to guns that have a full auto only trigger, like the lage comp trigger. I have that trigger and love it. I didn’t buy a mg to send rounds one at a time anyway.