NEW DIFR!!!
- Thread starter almega
- Start date
yzfchet
UZI Talk Instigator, UZI Talk Life Member,
Sort of a sidenote here...you folks are all aware that the SWD M11/9 units owned by everyone are vastly different in dimensions and fitments, right? Richard can take his, mine, a few other local guys' M11/9 lowers and get almost as many different fitting dimensions as there are lowers. These things were not originally manufactured to some +/- .001 mil tolerance; they were made more like +/- 10 mils of tolerance. They would not be made today like they were when they registered pre-86 - nobody would buy them for the junk they are.
The fact that Richard can make a slow-fire MAX-11 upper that works on almost everybody's lower without modification is a miracle. That he is making a major tweak with this DF thing and it works on more than a handful of lowers is a minor miracle.
Beta testing of his products is primarily checking out whether some new item or modification that he has already perfected on his gun will work without issues on other guns with different dimensions.
A lazier fellow would dedicate his efforts to making options for something like an MP5 or an AR15 or something that has tight enough manufacturing tolerances that whatever he designs will work on all units if it works on one.
All this to say that I have seen what he has to go through with his business because of these wide variances in lower dimensions between customers, and I wouldn't do it. The hassle is enormous. So if you get something from him and it doesn't work it's almost guaranteed to be because your lower is different than not only his lower but different than mine and a bunch of other people's lowers that the unit has been checked out and verified on, not because of an inherent flaw in the design or manufacture of the item.
The project to make a reliable .22LR kit for the MAX-11 and M/11 is just plain audacious. He's taking a full-auto lower receiver notorious as being wildly different between units in dimensions and taking the most problematic round in the industry (.22LR) and trying to come up with a fully functioning and reliable select fire weapon. And he's just about done it. If he releases it for manufacture & sale and you buy one and it doesn't work perfectly out of the box, rest assured that it's because of your lower, and he will do whatever is required to make it right.
If Richard Lage decided to make the Shrike than we would all have fully functioning belt-fed uppers for our M16s. It would be a piece of cake working with the tolerances on that weapon compared to the M11/9.
The fact that Richard can make a slow-fire MAX-11 upper that works on almost everybody's lower without modification is a miracle. That he is making a major tweak with this DF thing and it works on more than a handful of lowers is a minor miracle.
Beta testing of his products is primarily checking out whether some new item or modification that he has already perfected on his gun will work without issues on other guns with different dimensions.
A lazier fellow would dedicate his efforts to making options for something like an MP5 or an AR15 or something that has tight enough manufacturing tolerances that whatever he designs will work on all units if it works on one.
All this to say that I have seen what he has to go through with his business because of these wide variances in lower dimensions between customers, and I wouldn't do it. The hassle is enormous. So if you get something from him and it doesn't work it's almost guaranteed to be because your lower is different than not only his lower but different than mine and a bunch of other people's lowers that the unit has been checked out and verified on, not because of an inherent flaw in the design or manufacture of the item.
The project to make a reliable .22LR kit for the MAX-11 and M/11 is just plain audacious. He's taking a full-auto lower receiver notorious as being wildly different between units in dimensions and taking the most problematic round in the industry (.22LR) and trying to come up with a fully functioning and reliable select fire weapon. And he's just about done it. If he releases it for manufacture & sale and you buy one and it doesn't work perfectly out of the box, rest assured that it's because of your lower, and he will do whatever is required to make it right.
If Richard Lage decided to make the Shrike than we would all have fully functioning belt-fed uppers for our M16s. It would be a piece of cake working with the tolerances on that weapon compared to the M11/9.
9mmsubgun-m11
UZI Talk Life Member
Richard,there is NO need to appologize.I'm pretty certain that everyone here understands that problems may arrise with a new product or design.The fact that YOU take care of the problems and ANSWER all of our questions is probably the the greatest aspect of your business.You deliver one hell of a product and stand behind it,and nobody can expect more than that.Your onto somthing great that benefits alot of us,and should keep you busy for quite a few years to come.Keep up the good work sir.:thumbs_up
captshiess
UZI Talk Supporter
I just installed the newer DIFR and wow! It took a minute to get it to fit and and I had to tap a bit with a hammer, but it fits nice and snug and really matches the fit and finish of the Max-11. I ran some dummy rounds through it with 100% flawless feeding! I'm so excited to try this thing out tomorrow! I just hope I can get a hold of more suomi mags or Richards new mags. More to come with an range update.
9mmsubgun-m11
UZI Talk Life Member
When I got my mags I numbered all of them.First time out I had trouble with my # 3 mag as it would fail to feed.Last night after the installation of the new DIFR,I ran the # 3 mag through the gun 4 times without a hiccup.This new DIFR is very well made and looks like a factory part.Fit and finnish is excellent.
Put 200 rounds through it, 1 jam due to a bad WWB round (bullet was pushed way too far in the brass).
I was running it dry and dirty too. This was the very first time I've ever been able to really not worry about jams
I'll try and put more downrange tommorrow if I can make it out to the range.
I was running it dry and dirty too. This was the very first time I've ever been able to really not worry about jams
I'll try and put more downrange tommorrow if I can make it out to the range."To complicate things, I am also having difficulty finding quality Suomi magazines to convert. Some customers have given me leads on where to purchase them, so I will follow up on that (Copes, RTG and Numrich are not an option). The magazines I need cannot have dings, pitting or rust on them. The ones available now are not like the ones available earlier this year and suppliers say the nicer ones will no longer be available. I am also working on a back-up plan."
Richard:
Did you try Centerfiresystems? They still have some. I know sometime centerfiresystems are hit and miss but I got a couple of the suomi mags and they are not bad, no ding and no rust.
Richard:
Did you try Centerfiresystems? They still have some. I know sometime centerfiresystems are hit and miss but I got a couple of the suomi mags and they are not bad, no ding and no rust.
m11stuff@hotmail.com
UZI Talk Life Member
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2004
- Messages
- 2,239
I'll call Centerfire on Monday.
suomi mags
I have 30 or so for sale that i have had for a while, no rust and in great shape. I didn't read the rest of this thread so i am not sure if this is in line with the posts. Richard, if you are interested, let me know and i can bring them by your shop this week. Thanks
I have 30 or so for sale that i have had for a while, no rust and in great shape. I didn't read the rest of this thread so i am not sure if this is in line with the posts. Richard, if you are interested, let me know and i can bring them by your shop this week. Thanks
captshiess
UZI Talk Supporter
I ran the newer DIFR yesterday at the range. I put about 400 WWB rounds through my gun with different mags. I called Richard while I was at the range to explain a few FTF problems I was having. I found that if the rounds were pushed to the back of the magazine I would see a FTF about every 3-4 rds, but when I would hit the front of the mag to put the rounds at the front of the mag they would run flawless. I talked to Richard and he is going to see if we can extend the feed lips just a bit and flare them out to see if this will help catch the bullet more and feed it into the chamber. I'm still in love with this conversion though and the mags are awesome! I'd be happy with the newer DIFR, but Richard said he is going to make it run 100% so that makes it even better. Thanks Richard!
On a side note, it looks like the newer version of the DIFR is having a lot more success with other members of UT. I'm glad to see this is clearing up all the feed ramp problems. Mine must just be a little different "spec" than others. I'm sure I'm the exception because it seems that his design has already taken care of most everyone else. Thanks Richard for taking time to make sure that everyone's gun runs regardless of the spec.
On a side note, it looks like the newer version of the DIFR is having a lot more success with other members of UT. I'm glad to see this is clearing up all the feed ramp problems. Mine must just be a little different "spec" than others. I'm sure I'm the exception because it seems that his design has already taken care of most everyone else. Thanks Richard for taking time to make sure that everyone's gun runs regardless of the spec.
9mmsubgun-m11
UZI Talk Life Member
You could'nt ask for better customer service than that.
Captshiess, This has probably been answered somewhere else and forgive me for being too lazy to look at the moment but... Did you ever run a single feed Max-11 upper on your lower? Was the factory feed ramp adjusted for the Max-11 upper. If not could this be part of the problem?
captshiess
UZI Talk Supporter
AZ Doug said:
I did run the single feed max-11 for close to a year before my current DF setup. I did have to adjust my feed ramp as well to get it to run 100%. So to answer your question, I have already done some modification to the feedramp. I will have to get around to taking some pics of where my feed ramp is and maybe someone can chime in to see if it is still too low. It seems pretty high though and my old Max-11 set up ran perfectly with how much I moved it up.
I'm testing the DIFR with a Max-11 DF. I tested it this weekend with a several mags with and without the DIFR installed. I did a mag dump using American Eagle 147gn Flat-Nose with the DIFR installed. Without the DIFR this is unsuccessful. Also used reloads (Rainier 147gn TRN), Winchester 115gn 100rd value pk and Alabamma Special K all worked with no failures to feed.
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