POST '86 MACHINE GUNS - May Become Legal to Own

[slimshady]

As I understand it as long as you're on duty and clocked in your use of a machine gun is assumed to be official, and if you like pursue a car into the neighboring state with it racked in your patrol car that is perfectly fine. If Department policy says you take it home at night then that is authorized use. Remember many of the AR-15 patrol rifles ordinary cops are carrying in their cars were actually M16 rifles the military was giving out for free as part of it's law enforcement assistance plan. Along with armored vehicles and such. Many departments didn't want their regular officers running around with machine guns so they would replace the full auto selector with a semi-auto one and get rid of the full auto function. However they still remain machine guns on paper.

If however you are traveling out of state for training or whatever while off duty, unless you have a statement on agency letterhead saying you are going for official training as part of your duties submitted to ATF your travel form for the particular machine gun will not be approved.

 

[atfsux]

I would think being always on duty and deputized at all times regardless of time clock use covers official bs

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I remember how impossible the suppressor deregulation legislation was viewed by you same folks back in 2018 when Matt Salmon introduced it. And I was there with you. But here we are less than 8 years later and what has happened? Should we have given up?

Here we are 8 years later and suppressors are still just as regulated as they were 8 years ago, just less expensive.

Literally nothing has changed at all except for the cost of the unconstitutional tax stamp they require to own these things. In fact, they are still so heavily regulated that they aren’t even taxing them anymore, but STILL require you to jump through hoops and get a “tax stamp” (for 0 dollars).. it’s one of the most asinine things I have ever seen.

The bill accomplished nothing for those of us who prefer not to be in an ATF database just to own gun toys.

When we no longer have to register a suppressor with the ATF at all, or even interact with the ATF at all for any reason, I will consider them “deregulated”…

 

[Galil#1]

BINGO ! ^^^ Dr. MAC Ph.D has spoken ^^^

 

[atfsux]

Here we are 8 years later and suppressors are still just as regulated as they were 8 years ago, just less expensive.

Literally nothing has changed at all except for the cost of the unconstitutional tax stamp they require to own these things. In fact, they are still so heavily regulated that they aren’t even taxing them anymore, but STILL require you to jump through hoops and get a “tax stamp” (for 0 dollars).. it’s one of the most asinine things I have ever seen.

The bill accomplished nothing for those of us who prefer not to be in an ATF database just to own gun toys.

When we no longer have to register a suppressor with the ATF at all, or even interact with the ATF at all for any reason, I will consider them “deregulated”…

Yes,...but we didn't get this far by wringing our hands and worrying about who we'll upset. Heck,...who ever thought we'd get even this far?

All I'm saying is nobody is ever gonna like us, no matter how polite or color within the lines we act. NO MORE MR. NICE GUY!!!! Attack, attack, attack.

 

[slimshady]

In the fifth circuit case US V Peterson the doj reversed stance that suppressors are not arms and only accessories, not protected by the second amendment. Now the admit that they are arms that fall under the second amendment but they are still allowed to regulate them for various reasons.

This is huge. They can no longer argue that the second amendment doesn't even apply to these. Now that it does all of the supreme Court 2A decisions apply. The first one is are they dangerous and unusual and not in common use? Obviously with the explosion of suppressor usage even when there was a $200 tax there was a ton of them out there before January 1st. I would say a significant number of the free registrations since then are suppressors. With $150 22 suppressors showing up and no tax we're going to be into the millions fairly quickly, with the government's own records proving the number. So there goes the first part of the argument.

Now we get to bruen and it's two step test. One, does the behavior fall under the scope of the second amendment. The doj just said it did. Now we come to two, the law is presumptively unconstitutional and cannot stand. The government has the burden of proof to show there was a similar law back in the day. I can't think of what that would be, can you?

And of course we have the current lawsuits saying that without the tax Congress has no power to require the registration. Given a choice of ruling that they are protected arms under the second amendment and finding that Congress can only require registration as part of a tax collection scheme, the tax power is likely to be the winner. Less upsetting of the status quo, still leaves open the question of can they restore the tax and the registration for another day if it ever happens.

 

[Kramer]

...but they are still allowed to regulate them for various reasons.



.

Sorry, one reason only...they do not trust us. And before the NFA appeared, they did trust us because they were sold in hardware stores, along with adapters for mounting.

 

[Slowmo]

In the fifth circuit case US V Peterson the doj reversed stance that suppressors are not arms and only accessories, not protected by the second amendment. Now the admit that they are arms that fall under the second amendment but they are still allowed to regulate them for various reasons.

This is huge. They can no longer argue that the second amendment doesn't even apply to these. Now that it does all of the supreme Court 2A decisions apply. The first one is are they dangerous and unusual and not in common use? Obviously with the explosion of suppressor usage even when there was a $200 tax there was a ton of them out there before January 1st. I would say a significant number of the free registrations since then are suppressors. With $150 22 suppressors showing up and no tax we're going to be into the millions fairly quickly, with the government's own records proving the number. So there goes the first part of the argument.

Now we get to bruen and it's two step test. One, does the behavior fall under the scope of the second amendment. The doj just said it did. Now we come to two, the law is presumptively unconstitutional and cannot stand. The government has the burden of proof to show there was a similar law back in the day. I can't think of what that would be, can you?

And of course we have the current lawsuits saying that without the tax Congress has no power to require the registration. Given a choice of ruling that they are protected arms under the second amendment and finding that Congress can only require registration as part of a tax collection scheme, the tax power is likely to be the winner. Less upsetting of the status quo, still leaves open the question of can they restore the tax and the registration for another day if it ever happens.

Was there a subsequent opinion after the December ‘25 opinion? At least in the December opinion, the admission by .gov that silencers are firearms didn’t seem to have this effect. They never even went to the second prong of Bruen because they held that shall-issue regulation schemes are presumptively constitutional.

 

[strobro32]

I hope they don't start approving new machine guns.

I would be divorced, broke and deaf.

 

[slimshady]

Was there a subsequent opinion after the December ‘25 opinion? At least in the December opinion, the admission by .gov that silencers are firearms didn’t seem to have this effect. They never even went to the second prong of Bruen because they held that shall-issue regulation schemes are presumptively constitutional.

That was one of the various reasons.

 

[Chef]

Kentucky HB 749 and it is still active. The text of the bill is available if you look it up.

The Glock switch bill has already become law. That specifically prohibits "conversion devices" that convert a "firearm" to fullauto.

Like FRTs...

 

[UziSMG]

Like FRTs...

No, NOT like FRTs.

FRTs are not conversion devices, they simply raise the rate of fire of a semi auto gun, but each round fired is a separate pull of the trigger.

A Glock Switch converts a Glock to fullauto fire with one pull of the trigger.

Not classified as full-auto conversion devices

Forced Reset Rigger vs. Full Auto Conversion Device​

Forced reset triggers (FRTs) are not classified as full-auto conversion devices. They allow for a rapid rate of fire while maintaining the semi-automatic functionality of the firearm. Unlike full-auto conversion devices, which require multiple shots to be fired for each single function of the trigger, FRTs enable a single shot to be fired with a continuous pull of the trigger. This means that while FRTs can increase the rate of fire, they do not convert a semi-automatic firearm into a full-auto firearm.
Congress.gov

2025 State-by-State FRT Legality Guide​

Here’s an up-to-date table showing the legal status of Rare Breed FRT triggers in all 50 states:

State	Legal?	Notes
Alabama	yes	No restrictions
Alaska	yes	Legal for private use
Arizona	yes	Fully legal
California	No	Banned as “machine gun”
Colorado	No	Considered a conversion device
Florida		Under legal review
Georgia	yes	No FRT-specific law
Hawaii	No	Illegal under local firearm codes
Illinois	No	Banned under assault weapon law
Indiana	yes	Legal and shippable
Iowa	yes	No trigger restrictions
Kentucky	yes	Legal for AR platforms
Louisiana	yes	Legal with standard NFA rules
Maryland	No	Banned under state law
Massachusetts	No	Illegal under trigger mod ban
Michigan		Legal gray area
Minnesota		Subject to ATF enforcement
Mississippi	yes	No restrictions
Missouri	yes	Fully legal
Montana	yes	Legal for all platforms
Nevada	yes	Previously gray; now legal
New Jersey	No	Considered a machine gun
New York	No	Banned entirely
North Carolina	yes	Legal
North Dakota	yes	No trigger mods banned
Ohio	yes	Legal in private hands
Oklahoma	yes	No restrictions
Oregon		Under review in courts
Pennsylvania	yes	Legal but check local ordinances
South Carolina	yes	Legal
South Dakota	yes	FRTs allowed
Tennessee	yes	Legal and supported
Texas	yes	Fully legal
Utah	yes	Legal under state firearm law
Vermont	yes	Allowed for semi-auto builds
Virginia		Mixed enforcement
Washington	No	Banned since 2023
Wisconsin	yes	Legal in semi-auto config
Wyoming	yes	100% legal

Take note of all the states where FRTs are illegal.

 

[Chef]

You can go ahead and spout all that stuff about "each pull of the trigger", or try and argue the point using the newest catch phrase everyone is hiding behind, "common use", but the bottom line is they turn semi auto firearms into machineguns, and they will be banned soon on a federal level. Plain and simple.

You're just on borrowed time with them right now, and you better be praying or sacrificing animals or whatever you can in hopes the AFT allows you to register them tax free and not simply call them contraband and go the confiscation route.

 

[UziSMG]

You can go ahead and spout all that stuff about "each pull of the trigger", or try and argue the point using the newest catch phrase everyone is hiding behind, "common use", but the bottom line is they turn semi auto firearms into machineguns, and they will be banned soon on a federal level. Plain and simple.

You're just on borrowed time with them right now, and you better be praying or sacrificing animals or whatever you can in hopes the AFT allows you to register them tax free and not simply call them contraband and go the confiscation route.

Obviously you've not been paying attention to the court's decisions. The ATF has already had their ass handed to them on the subject.

 

[Chef]

Oh, I pay attention, do you?
AFT is going after braces again, just when you thought they were GTG.
And you think one little "win" by Rare Breed has done anything other than buy you a little time? You think the feds are gonna simply roll over and let you play with unregistered SBRs and machineguns?
Their lawyers will find a way to end your party, you can count on it.

 

[UziSMG]

Oh, I pay attention, do you?
AFT is going after braces again, just when you thought they were GTG.
And you think one little "win" by Rare Breed has done anything other than buy you a little time? You think the feds are gonna simply roll over and let you play with unregistered SBRs and machineguns?
Their lawyers will find a way to end your party, you can count on it.

Don't try to obfuscate the subject of FRTs into braces.

Forced reset triggers are legal under federal law after a May 2025 Justice Department settlement reversed the ATF’s machine gun classification. Federal courts ruled FRTs don’t meet the National Firearms Act definition because each shot requires a separate trigger pull.
However, several states independently prohibit FRT possession regardless of federal law—California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maryland, New Jersey, and others maintain bans classifying FRTs as prohibited trigger activators.

 

[skoda]

When they agreed to drop their case AND hand FRTs back to people they essentially admitted that they don't consider them to be MGs. One can whine about the subject and do legal word smithing all you want. When they sent them back to the people that they took them from they capitulated and left it to congress to address.

 

[atfsux]

I think you are both talking past each other. You are both correct in certain ways.

Yes, the law has been (because it is so twisted an convoluted) during this brief time turned upon the enemy and been in our favor. However, what Chef is ultimately referring to is the fact that "the law" has never been what guides the enemy. If it was, we wouldn't be where we are in the first place. The enemy is always and constantly seeking their end result, and the law is (to them) merely a tool by which to achieve that. When that tool doesn't work out as they envision, that in no way gives them any pause to stop finding ways to their goal. And because they have always been so skilled at perverting the law in the past gives them the edge on succeeding at doing so again in the future, which they are currently attempting yet again as they always do.

The biggest mistake we can make is to act as if we have won because things THIS TIME have gone as they should. The enemy is indeed conspiring at this moment to re-pervert and re-corrupt the law to their whims. We are correct to take advantage of this moment. But we must also assume the most dastardly and evil skullduggery within those whom we entrust the custody of the law.

Yes, the courts have been very clear on FRTs. And so was Congress on the right to bear arms. And how did that stand up? It only stands when we are jealously paranoid of the enemy.

 

[Slowmo]

Oh, I pay attention, do you?
AFT is going after braces again, just when you thought they were GTG.
And you think one little "win" by Rare Breed has done anything other than buy you a little time? You think the feds are gonna simply roll over and let you play with unregistered SBRs and machineguns?
Their lawyers will find a way to end your party, you can count on it.

Why are you so angry that people are enjoying their rights?

 

[Chef]

Why are you so angry that people are enjoying their rights?

Why would you think that I am angry?

I am simply being the voice of logic and reason.

While you may believe it's time to uncork some champagne and start partying in the street, I have been around long enough to see bans and freedoms come and go at the whim of those in charge.

Pretending that what we have today (braces, FRTs, bump stocks etc) we will continue to "enjoy" for many decades to come does nothing but create an unreasonable expectation in people. Making that time when this all comes to an end, that much more painful for everyone who believed that "we" (the 2A community) "won".
We didn't "win" anything. This is merely a pause, giving the "enemy" time to rearm and regroup and plan a new strategy for attack.

Do you really think that WV or Kentucky is going to sell machineguns to civilians?? Seriously? That fantasy has less of a chance of coming true than a second amnesty.

The goal of the left, the government and the AFT is to eventually, completely, disarm the civilian population.
We, in the USA, are simply the last in a line of "evolution" of what is considered "freedom" in the civilized world.
If you want to look at the future of the USA in most likely less than 100 years, look at England or Australia, that's where we are heading, make no mistake. And not just with 2A either.

The worst enemy we have is false hope and illusions.