Questions about CF-W bolts and Lage Uppers

[cajun 22]

The full size bolt has been discontinued. You'll have to search for a used one.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Is there a list somewhere for interest in another run of the full size W bolts. My A bolt is better than nothing but I would sell it for a full size or buy a full size even if I couldn't sell it. In my opinion the perfect weight is somewhere between 30oz and 27oz for the M11/nine. But make them 30oz then I can tune to where I like. Just my opinion.

The very first generation of bolt was a standard steel bolt that had been cut down, mounting holes drilled in the back, and a tungsten weight added. I would think that you could do the same with your "A" bolt. As far as a list, I would ask Vegas directly. It would seem to me that there is not that much interest in the full size bolt. With the increased mass, the full size bolt can be made to run slower. But at the super slow ROF, it feels kind of "choppy". The "A" bolt can be run almost as slowly for what the "A" bolt lacks in mass, it runs more slowly from increased stroke.

There is also the issue of cost. The full size bolt is a much bigger chunk of tungsten alloy. Because of the mass of the full size bolt, the dimensional challenges were not noticed until the production of the original "A" bolt. The revision would be expensive. The replaceable firing pin was a feature of a closed bolt conversion that never happened. The replaceable firing pin feature is hard to make so deep into the center of the bolt. But revising the design would be yet another expense. What would the price for all this be, and would enough buyers be willing to pay that price? I don't know the answers to these questions.

It is my understanding that the tungsten bolt project has been a "labor of love" project for Vegas. The market is pretty much saturated and the price of tungsten has risen quite a bit. Will the full size tungsten bolt ever be made again? I don't know. If it happens again it will be significantly more than the current price of the A bolt, I would think. I was fortunate enough to buy all three variants when they were available. Just to be clear, I am not looking to sell any of them. As Vegas has said many times, when you see something you want, buy it. It might not be there when you "get around to it ".

Scott

 

[Gaujo]

All that's made now is the A version and it's version two. The word was the full size version only had marginal improvement in the 11/9 and wasn't compatible with M11/ M11A1, so it didn't make sense to produce both when the A bolt is lighter.

I don't even know if Vegas still has any as I can't get his facebook page to come up. I would say though that if vegas ever got bored of the mac and making these for the crew, they might be worth $2k overnight. Fence sitters beware.

 

[fishtix]

Fishtix is your 9MMa bolt able to reach the buffer when you fully compress it or does it bottom out on the recoil spring?

If you are referring to the A bolt in the swd m11/9mm I’m can’t answer that personally as I’ve only ran the A bolt in my swd m11a1. I keep a gen 2 cf-w bolt in my m11/9. Sometime I’ll put the A bolt in my m11/9 and see if it bottoms out on the spring. If it does, seems like the fix is a few more buffers.

 

[strobro32]

The A bolt does not bottom out on the spring. That would destroy the spring. If your A bolt does, that means you have the wrong spring.

 

[donkeyslayer]

Yes it does bottom out on the compressed coils and does damage them with the springs Vegas sent with the bolt. The ones with orange paint on one end. 107 coils with a wire diameter .040". If you clip enough coils for the bolt to hit just one recoil pad it shoots below 600 rpm. And Im not sure if it would be reliable.
Do you have any suggestions for a proper spring other than the nonstandard types previously suggested

 

[SecondAmend]

Yes it does bottom out on the compressed coils and does damage them with the springs Vegas sent with the bolt. The ones with orange paint on one end. 107 coils with a wire diameter .040". If you clip enough coils for the bolt to hit just one recoil pad it shoots below 600 rpm. And I'm not sure if it would be reliable.
Do you have any suggestions for a proper spring other than the nonstandard types previously suggested

For an alternative recoil assembly that has been implemented in the past; see, for example, "The MAC Man" by Frank Iannamico and Don Thomas on pages 454 and 457.

 

[Galil#1]

The learning curve from all the experiences and technical knowledge you guys have/share is awesome! Not to jack this post... all this cool bolt talk... I have a PS M10/9 with a MAX 10/31, love it. My understanding is the Lage 10/31 runs a M11 bolt design, is it a "big" or "small" bolt? Can it be tinkered with the same way as you guys been talking about, i.e. run faster, run slower etc.? I added two (2) Lage VBSs and it runs like a Rolex. Thank you All, learning a lot here!

 

[strobro32]

Yes it does bottom out on the compressed coils and does damage them with the springs Vegas sent with the bolt. The ones with orange paint on one end. 107 coils with a wire diameter .040". If you clip enough coils for the bolt to hit just one recoil pad it shoots below 600 rpm. And Im not sure if it would be reliable.
Do you have any suggestions for a proper spring other than the nonstandard types previously suggested

I use the orange spring with 63 coils for 380.

Tom was shipping the A bolt set up for 9mm ammo. Tom needed to know what type of ammo you are running. 9mm in the M11A1 uses a proprietary 9mm "stronger" spring. The 380 ammo needs the orange spring that is around 63-65 coils.
Sam at Practical Solutions uses a drop down menu on his website that asks if you want 9mm, 380 or both springs.

 

[H.Bowman]

My 9mm spring, and the extra springs i have, are all 107 coils. I dont have my Mac yet so I dont know if it bottoms out on the spring when shooting. But if i take the bolt by itself and push it all the way back towards the buffer, the bolt will bottom out on the compressed spring before the back of the bolt hits the buffer. Like i said, not sure if this happens when shooting because I dont have the Mac yet. In all of my research on here, I'm pretty sure I saw a post by Tom saying that the A bolt dosnt make contact with the buffer anyway while shooting. I havn't been able to find it again though.

 

[donkeyslayer]

If you shoot unsuppressed with 115 grain wolf with 107 coils it will hit the coils occasionally if you shoot suppressed with anything but weak reloads it going to be all over the spring. I've tested this extensively with different types of ammo and different coil counts trying to get the A bolt to run suppressed with out hitting the back of the receiver . It simply has to be a little bit longer and a little bit heavier to give you that constant recall feel with a suppressor Maybe one of the nonstandard recoil springs or systems mentioned in this post can achieve this I don't know. Vegas knows this he said his self it could use a better spring in the M11/nine. I'm making mine longer . Donkey is done happy shooting!