Questions about MAC 10A1

[KLC]

I have some questions about a MAC 10 that I was recently shown:
Gun is stamped:
INGRAM M10A1 CAL. 9MM.45A.C.P.
MILITARY ARMAMENT CORP.
STEPHENSVILLE, TX. USA. Serial # ES0643

Gun appears to be complete with a magazine; except it's missing grip behind the magazine receiver. Appears that would be a low cost fix?
Questions:
- Gun does not have a switch for auto/semi auto, so I assume it is semi-auto?
- Were M10A1's produced in both semi auto, and selectable semi-full auto?
- Are there conversion kits to convert this gun to full auto?
- Were M10A1's made with foldup stock?, this gun doesn't have a stock and doesn't even appear to have a place for a stock to mount.
- Any way to determine approximate date of manufacture of this gun from the serial number?
- It says Stevensville, Tx, however I've heard that some Stevensville guns were made from parts from previous companies?
- Appears to be spot welded and welds appear to be in good shape, however I've read that spot welds could be an issue?
- Gun is in fair/good condition; what would be a reasonable price if I wanted to purchase it?
- Would I need to apply for/obtain a permit ($200 stamp) before purchasing this gun?

I've owned and shot guns for over 50 years (mainly hunting guns), but I admitted have little knowledge about MAC 10's other than what I've read on-line.
Any info would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Deerhurst]

If it does not have the switch on the left side it is SA only.

I am assuming the "A1" designation is a later semi model. My 1973 Powder Springs gun does not say "A1".

With enough know how its easy to make anything FA. Legally that is a big No No unless you are a SOT. Anything not already in the registry as a transferable (pre-May 1986) is a no go for us peons.

If it has no holes in the rear of the receiver it was/is a semi auto pistol. Another indication it is a later gun. You can add the holes and a stock legally with either a F1 for SBR or a 16" barrel and meeting a minimum OAL.

I am not familiar with the SA guns, maybe $1200ish if in good shape? Could be more.

If it is semi auto just have the seller send it to your FFL. If its a MG then buy it, do the F4 for your trust or individual and have it sent to your NFA dealer. for NFA you buy first then do your paperwork and tax.


Pics would help. Lots of knowledgeable folks here that will be able to help more than I can.

 

[KLC]

Thank You. It's obviously semi-auto, so it doesn't fall under the same rules as a full auto?, but still requires a license/stamp? Maybe still requires a license/stamp due to threaded barrel or magazine capacity?

 

[LawBob]

If it’s sã it needs no stamp

 

[LawBob]

Questions:
- Gun does not have a switch for auto/semi auto, so I assume it is semi-auto?

Semi

- Were M10A1's produced in both semi auto, and selectable semi-full auto?

Yes

- Are there conversion kits to convert this gun to full auto?

Yes but it’s illegal now

- Were M10A1's made with foldup stock?, this gun doesn't have a stock and doesn't even appear to have a place for a stock to mount.

Stocks on pistols make them
Sbrs, requiring a tax stamp

- Any way to determine approximate date of manufacture of this gun from the serial number?

Mac man book

- It says Stevensville, Tx, however I've heard that some Stevensville guns were made from parts from previous companies?

No their inventory was bought by swr when they went bankrupt

- Appears to be spot welded and welds appear to be in good shape, however I've read that spot welds could be an issue?

True.

- Gun is in fair/good condition; what would be a reasonable price if I wanted to purchase it?

Unknown. 300-600?

- Would I need to apply for/obtain a permit ($200 stamp) before purchasing this gun?

No. It’s semi

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

It’s a stephensville Texas gun. To answer your questions about it being made from original parts, yes it is. In 1982 RPB was forced to close their doors when the ATF restricted the sale of their open bolt semi auto pistols. Back in 1975 RPB obtained the remaining inventory from MAC, including tooling and frames. In 1982 RPB auctioned everything off, including that original tooling. James Leatherwood of Advanced Armament, and originally MAC, purchased the original tooling and frame flats etc from the RPB auction. He also obtained the rights to the M10 and the INGRAM trademark. Wayne Daniel, previously the owner of RPB, soon to be SWD, purchased the rights to the M11, the COBRAY trademark and all of the M11 tooling and parts. That milled circle on the frame is where it was originally marked with the Cobray logo by RPB. Wayne made leatherwood mill those logos off because Wayne owned the trademark. A few years later Wayne purchased the remaining Texas SMG frames from leatherwood and had to restamp his Cobray logo into the milled out circle where he made leatherwood remove it a few years earlier. The Texas guns ARE built from some original MAC parts and tooling and the guy who built them was an original MAC employee, but the guns were a major downgrade. Leatherwood came up with a bunch of “improvements” that ended up being undesirable and the guns were not well received. The early Texas semis and the SMGs were spot welded and the frames would fall apart. This was eventually improved on the semi auto model, but the SMGs are generally considered a lost cause unless it’s the more common SWD rebuilt versions.

 

[TheJankyTexasMac]

They're easily considered the Saturday night special of Mac-10s Saw a Texas Mac the other day on gunbroker sell for $905 with 2 mags I believe too

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

They're easily considered the Saturday night special of Mac-10s Saw a Texas Mac the other day on gunbroker sell for $905 with 2 mags I believe too

That’s expensive for a TX semi auto even on GB. 7-800 is the norm.

 

[TheJankyTexasMac]

That’s expensive for a TX semi auto even on GB. 7-800 is the norm.

Might have missed the two magazines part. That could be what increased the value.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Might have missed the two magazines part. That could be what increased the value.

Truthfully when it comes to complete firearms on gunbroker, any accessories included tend to be thrown in “for free”. I regularly see guns selling with large lots of valuable accessories included and the whole lot sells for the same price the gun would sell for if it didn’t come with a single accessory at all. I will say with confidence that the 2x magazines included did not add to the selling price of the gun.. I’ve seen guns with a dozen walther MAC 9mm mags (250-300 each per walther mag) selling for the same price that they sell for without a single magazine included. I’ve been saying for years that I cannot stand when I see a gun listed on GB with a lot of valuable accessories included, as the seller is simply giving those accessories away for free by including them with a gun instead of selling them on their own.

 

[PDXsparky]

Truthfully when it comes to complete firearms on gunbroker, any accessories included tend to be thrown in “for free”. I regularly see guns selling with large lots of valuable accessories included and the whole lot sells for the same price the gun would sell for if it didn’t come with a single accessory at all. I will say with confidence that the 2x magazines included did not add to the selling price of the gun.. I’ve seen guns with a dozen walther MAC 9mm mags (250-300 each per walther mag) selling for the same price that they sell for without a single magazine included. I’ve been saying for years that I cannot stand when I see a gun listed on GB with a lot of valuable accessories included, as the seller is simply giving those accessories away for free by including them with a gun instead of selling them on their own.

I agree that those sellers are leaving money on the table, but perhaps they just don't want to expend the time/effort to sell everything separately. They just want it all gone.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I agree that those sellers are leaving money on the table, but perhaps they just don't want to expend the time/effort to sell everything separately. They just wan't it all gone.

That’s exactly what it is, the only reason it annoys me is because I would love an opportunity to buy those accessories without having to buy the gun to get them! And the seller could be making twice as much, it’s a win win! ?

 

[PDXsparky]

That’s exactly what it is, the only reason it annoys me is because I would love an opportunity to buy those accessories without having to buy the gun to get them! And the seller could be making twice as much, it’s a win win! ?

Completely agree. I saw a M/11A1 with a full set of Lage uppers on Strum. He had priced the package like they added value to it. I would have bought one of them, but not the whole package to get just one. I don't need a second M/11A1.

 

[LawBob]

Completely agree. I saw a M/11A1 with a full set of Lage uppers on Strum. He had priced the package like they added value to it. I would have bought one of them, but not the whole package to get just one. I don't need a second M/11A1.

Bite your tongue. You always need more

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Completely agree. I saw a M/11A1 with a full set of Lage uppers on Strum. He had priced the package like they added value to it. I would have bought one of them, but not the whole package to get just one. I don't need a second M/11A1.

The other thing with gun + accessory packages is that accessories (at least modern ones) tend to be kind of personalized, and everyone’s tastes are different. For instance, I have zero interest in the the modern accessories like the LAGE uppers etc, so if someone was selling a gun I was interested in, like that M11 you describe, and they were including a bunch of LAGE uppers and other related accessories, and drastically increasing the price to reflect the included uppers, it would basically eliminate that gun as an option for me, whereas I would have possibly purchased the gun if it didn’t require me to also pay extra for a bunch of expensive accessories that don’t appeal to me. The seller is limiting his potential buyers by including accessories that may not appeal to everyone who wants that particular gun.

 

[PDXsparky]

Bite your tongue. You always need more

Nah, I have all 3 flavors already.