Semiauto UZI - Serious tool or a Range Toy?
- Thread starter Quarterbore
- Start date
Tommy Gun
Active member
I don't believe this poll is asking the right question. Is a semi-auto Uzi with a short barrel a serious weapon? Absolutely. British farmers in Kenya were issued semi-Sterlings during the Mau-Mau rebellion, and let's not forget the whole reason for the development of the M1 Carbine.
Light, handy, pistol-caliber carbines are excellent self-defense weapons, especially when placing the rounds accurately on target count. It is far easier to hit with a carbine-style rifle in a pistol caliber, so long as you are talking ranges not exceeding 50 meters. I shoot IPSC-style carbine courses where the M4gery prevails, and I routinely used to smoke people with an MP-5 set on semi. You can't beat the shot-to-shot follow-up time, especially when firing from a closed bolt. Add superb reliability and easy caliber conversions and you very much have a serious weapon, just a specialised one.
Tom
Light, handy, pistol-caliber carbines are excellent self-defense weapons, especially when placing the rounds accurately on target count. It is far easier to hit with a carbine-style rifle in a pistol caliber, so long as you are talking ranges not exceeding 50 meters. I shoot IPSC-style carbine courses where the M4gery prevails, and I routinely used to smoke people with an MP-5 set on semi. You can't beat the shot-to-shot follow-up time, especially when firing from a closed bolt. Add superb reliability and easy caliber conversions and you very much have a serious weapon, just a specialised one.
Tom
Mega said:
AR in 9MM platform has reliability issues since it was not designed for that round. If you need something 100%, go with a firearm designed for that caliber. Otherwise, it would suck when a spent case is lodged behind the hammer. Doubt the bad guy would let you take a time out to take your gun apart.
I have 5 inch with suppressor and side cocker that is fun to shoot.
Thundertaker
Member
Here's the deal
Of course, just about any gun that you are proficiant with would be your choice. I might consider ammo availability. My first choice would probably be a .22 (maybe ruger 10/22), a 12 ga. (probably a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series), and a .223 rifle. I would lean towards one that was battle tested such as an AR15 or an FN FNC. I do like the mini-14s, but don't know how they would be in the elements of battle. Also, the one of the AKs would be hard to beat except for the availability of ammo (unless the SHTF involved Communist influence). For a sidearm, again I would have a .22 revolver (because of the reliability factor over a semi-auto). A revolver in .38or .357 mag. in a Ruger, Taurus, or Smith in would also be fine, dependable weapons. I would probably grab a 1911 style .45 as a man stopper, although I also like the Browning HiPower 9mm guns for milder recoil, and generally higher capacity. I also want my wife and children sufficiantly familiar with these weapons so that they can protect and defend the Family. I think the number one gun......the last resort weapon.....the one your life depends on.....will be totally different for each person as a result of past experiences with guns you own or have owned. That is evident by the fact that there are already enough pages on this topic to fill a book. I just pray that none of us has to put our choices to the test.
Of course, just about any gun that you are proficiant with would be your choice. I might consider ammo availability. My first choice would probably be a .22 (maybe ruger 10/22), a 12 ga. (probably a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series), and a .223 rifle. I would lean towards one that was battle tested such as an AR15 or an FN FNC. I do like the mini-14s, but don't know how they would be in the elements of battle. Also, the one of the AKs would be hard to beat except for the availability of ammo (unless the SHTF involved Communist influence). For a sidearm, again I would have a .22 revolver (because of the reliability factor over a semi-auto). A revolver in .38or .357 mag. in a Ruger, Taurus, or Smith in would also be fine, dependable weapons. I would probably grab a 1911 style .45 as a man stopper, although I also like the Browning HiPower 9mm guns for milder recoil, and generally higher capacity. I also want my wife and children sufficiantly familiar with these weapons so that they can protect and defend the Family. I think the number one gun......the last resort weapon.....the one your life depends on.....will be totally different for each person as a result of past experiences with guns you own or have owned. That is evident by the fact that there are already enough pages on this topic to fill a book. I just pray that none of us has to put our choices to the test.
LIVELY TOPIC
Popular thread, I enjoyed reading your responses.
I almost went with range toy, but bent the serious tool option slightly as the UZI would not be at the top of my list as long as I had 556, 308, 5.45 or 762X39 ammo for my other guns. But it would be at the top of the list when I ran out of rifle ammo. Which is one of the reasons I picked up a semi 16" Uzi. But by and large, as many of you noted, I just have a lot of fun with it at the range.
Popular thread, I enjoyed reading your responses.
I almost went with range toy, but bent the serious tool option slightly as the UZI would not be at the top of my list as long as I had 556, 308, 5.45 or 762X39 ammo for my other guns. But it would be at the top of the list when I ran out of rifle ammo. Which is one of the reasons I picked up a semi 16" Uzi. But by and large, as many of you noted, I just have a lot of fun with it at the range.
Glockdude1
UZI Talk Supporter
kiki said:
Very true!!
:surfing
ddmau
Well-known member
Just an Uzitalk noob, but I thought I'd throw in my two centavos.....
I just picked up my first Uzi a few weeks back (new Vector Semi) and I'm having a ball with it (surprised at how accurate the thing is), but I had to vote "Range toy".
To be honest, the best weapon for the SHTF scenario would be the one you can get (or make) plenty of ammo for.....and forget about fancy stuff like dot sights, suppressors or full-auto...simple is the name of the game. I was a grunt in 'Nam in 1968, and I never used full-auto in a firefight, except when I was on the M-60....just a waste of ammo.
If you have to cart it around all day/every day, and you don't know when you can re-supply....you don't dump it in a hail of lead to take out a cockroach... it's called fire discipline.
You would most likely have more than one weapon to take advantage of what's available (I'm sure most of us do :halo )...but if I had to choose only one - an AK in 7.62X39 would be my choice. When you want a firearm that will go BANG 99.9% of the time every time you pull the trigger, no matter what, nothing else even comes close.....(don't flame me...just going by personal experience). I love my AR, but an AK is a far more reliable TOOL...and that's what you need in that kind of scenario.
As far as ammo - it's cheap & plentiful now.....stock up. Even though it's a "Commie" round, its manufactured on just about every continent on the planet (including the US), and you can just about bet you could get it long after most other ammo was long gone (look around the world at most "insurgencies"..they have all the 7.62X39 they can eat)...besides, it's super simple to make on your own if you have to...
Just my Humble Opinion.... but as they say; your mileage may vary..
Have fun :twoguns
I just picked up my first Uzi a few weeks back (new Vector Semi) and I'm having a ball with it (surprised at how accurate the thing is), but I had to vote "Range toy".
To be honest, the best weapon for the SHTF scenario would be the one you can get (or make) plenty of ammo for.....and forget about fancy stuff like dot sights, suppressors or full-auto...simple is the name of the game. I was a grunt in 'Nam in 1968, and I never used full-auto in a firefight, except when I was on the M-60....just a waste of ammo.
If you have to cart it around all day/every day, and you don't know when you can re-supply....you don't dump it in a hail of lead to take out a cockroach... it's called fire discipline.
You would most likely have more than one weapon to take advantage of what's available (I'm sure most of us do :halo )...but if I had to choose only one - an AK in 7.62X39 would be my choice. When you want a firearm that will go BANG 99.9% of the time every time you pull the trigger, no matter what, nothing else even comes close.....(don't flame me...just going by personal experience). I love my AR, but an AK is a far more reliable TOOL...and that's what you need in that kind of scenario.
As far as ammo - it's cheap & plentiful now.....stock up. Even though it's a "Commie" round, its manufactured on just about every continent on the planet (including the US), and you can just about bet you could get it long after most other ammo was long gone (look around the world at most "insurgencies"..they have all the 7.62X39 they can eat)...besides, it's super simple to make on your own if you have to...
Just my Humble Opinion.... but as they say; your mileage may vary..
Have fun :twoguns
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I just joined this board based upon the purchase of an UZI carbine. I selected this carbine for a niche use and find that it will fit the bill quite nicely.
Allow me to explain the niche that this weapon fills for me a little better so that my perspective at least makes some sense.
I have spent the last 24 years in law enforcement where I spent 19 of those years assigned to my agency's SWAT unit. When I first came on the team we were issued MP5a3's which I carried for about ten years prior to switching to the Mk18 (10.5" M4). In these ten years I racked up hundreds of situations where the MP5 was deployed in an operational situation. These ranged from barricaded gunmen and high risk warrant service to hostage rescues. In each the MP5 served well and in each was well within its operational envelope. To say that the 9mm round is not effective is simply folly as at ranges which are common in LE engagements, i.e. urban, the MP5 and the 9mm can more than get the job done as long as you do your part with bullet placement.
Just to touch briefly on why our team switched to the M4 platform: cost. Over riding everything else cost was the determining factor. MP5's and the accessories for them are many times the cost of same for an M4. Sure the M4 does give us the ability to range out further but honestly in an urban environment, at least our heavily urban environment, we were always within the range of the MP5. Next, the 5.56mm does penetrate body armor however to be honest that concern is vastly overrated. Very, very few people have body armor. Yes there have been some instances, all high profile instances where body armor played a part in the engagement however they are a very small percentage.
I have been present during several officer involved shootings and can bluntly tell you that the suspect who got shot didn't know what they got shot with, period. From 12 gauge slugs, to 9mm, to other weapons systems as long as the bullet was placed correctly then everything went well.
Now the niche that this weapon performs for me: I now teach tactical law enforcement and officer survival nationwide. In that regard I travel a lot. While I traditionally travel with a 16" M4 style rifle, for some classes the M4 is simply not needed but I do want some type of long gun along just in case the literal 'worst case' scenario might erupt while I am far from my family.
What the UZI gives me is the ability to have a reliable weapons system with me in a very concealable package. I can either break the carbine down and without the barrel have it fit inside a messenger style look alike bag or I can choose, where lawful, to take the UZI SBR along with suppressor.
No, it doesn't give me an extremely long range platform to work from should I have to however I would put it like this; many people theorize about 200+ yard engagements. Could happen, has happened, but the more likely event is 0-50 yards and in that scenario I will take a weapons system that is quick to shoulder, has 'enough' stopping power and one that lets me have contact with the weapon at three points, i.e. shoulder, cheek weld and hands.
Yes, there are those who can shoot a handgun at longer ranges and expect good solid hits on a target, in fact I have personally seen a very well known trainer do it at 400 yards with a 1911. However, that was on a square range without any movement of the target or shooter and it was not under duress. For those who think that 100+yard handgun hits are likely in a real, moving combat scenario I think you are deluding yourself. Sure it can be done in the abstract but being able to do it on demand, in a real world engagement where your life is on the line is not likely.
Can you hit a target at 100 with the UZI Carbine, yes, but again it was not a system designed for that. It is however, a better solution than a pistol at that range.
Where the UZI is better than the 5.56mm/7.62x39mm is in size. You can conceal it better and it can be deployed from concealment easier, especially in the SBR versions.
If I'm going to all out combat, the M4 platform is my first choice followed by the AK platform. If I am forced out, literally on foot during a SHTF event while I am away from home and outside of my normal jurisdiction, I want something that I can conceal yet something that gives me the three point hold that the UZI carbine does.
Is the UZI or UZI carbine better than the MP5 or MP5 clone? On price alone yes and on size.
Again, while your mileage may vary, for me the UZI Carbine/UZI SBR fills a niche. Narrow as it is, it is still something I felt needed to be addressed for my safety and survival.
Allow me to explain the niche that this weapon fills for me a little better so that my perspective at least makes some sense.
I have spent the last 24 years in law enforcement where I spent 19 of those years assigned to my agency's SWAT unit. When I first came on the team we were issued MP5a3's which I carried for about ten years prior to switching to the Mk18 (10.5" M4). In these ten years I racked up hundreds of situations where the MP5 was deployed in an operational situation. These ranged from barricaded gunmen and high risk warrant service to hostage rescues. In each the MP5 served well and in each was well within its operational envelope. To say that the 9mm round is not effective is simply folly as at ranges which are common in LE engagements, i.e. urban, the MP5 and the 9mm can more than get the job done as long as you do your part with bullet placement.
Just to touch briefly on why our team switched to the M4 platform: cost. Over riding everything else cost was the determining factor. MP5's and the accessories for them are many times the cost of same for an M4. Sure the M4 does give us the ability to range out further but honestly in an urban environment, at least our heavily urban environment, we were always within the range of the MP5. Next, the 5.56mm does penetrate body armor however to be honest that concern is vastly overrated. Very, very few people have body armor. Yes there have been some instances, all high profile instances where body armor played a part in the engagement however they are a very small percentage.
I have been present during several officer involved shootings and can bluntly tell you that the suspect who got shot didn't know what they got shot with, period. From 12 gauge slugs, to 9mm, to other weapons systems as long as the bullet was placed correctly then everything went well.
Now the niche that this weapon performs for me: I now teach tactical law enforcement and officer survival nationwide. In that regard I travel a lot. While I traditionally travel with a 16" M4 style rifle, for some classes the M4 is simply not needed but I do want some type of long gun along just in case the literal 'worst case' scenario might erupt while I am far from my family.
What the UZI gives me is the ability to have a reliable weapons system with me in a very concealable package. I can either break the carbine down and without the barrel have it fit inside a messenger style look alike bag or I can choose, where lawful, to take the UZI SBR along with suppressor.
No, it doesn't give me an extremely long range platform to work from should I have to however I would put it like this; many people theorize about 200+ yard engagements. Could happen, has happened, but the more likely event is 0-50 yards and in that scenario I will take a weapons system that is quick to shoulder, has 'enough' stopping power and one that lets me have contact with the weapon at three points, i.e. shoulder, cheek weld and hands.
Yes, there are those who can shoot a handgun at longer ranges and expect good solid hits on a target, in fact I have personally seen a very well known trainer do it at 400 yards with a 1911. However, that was on a square range without any movement of the target or shooter and it was not under duress. For those who think that 100+yard handgun hits are likely in a real, moving combat scenario I think you are deluding yourself. Sure it can be done in the abstract but being able to do it on demand, in a real world engagement where your life is on the line is not likely.
Can you hit a target at 100 with the UZI Carbine, yes, but again it was not a system designed for that. It is however, a better solution than a pistol at that range.
Where the UZI is better than the 5.56mm/7.62x39mm is in size. You can conceal it better and it can be deployed from concealment easier, especially in the SBR versions.
If I'm going to all out combat, the M4 platform is my first choice followed by the AK platform. If I am forced out, literally on foot during a SHTF event while I am away from home and outside of my normal jurisdiction, I want something that I can conceal yet something that gives me the three point hold that the UZI carbine does.
Is the UZI or UZI carbine better than the MP5 or MP5 clone? On price alone yes and on size.
Again, while your mileage may vary, for me the UZI Carbine/UZI SBR fills a niche. Narrow as it is, it is still something I felt needed to be addressed for my safety and survival.
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wonderdog451
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2006
- Messages
- 1,062
I believe that this reply offers the best explanation of the proper use of a sub-machine gun. Many people talk about engaging multiple assailants at different ranges, but the overwhelming majority of people will never experience that type of confrontation.
rickthecabbie
Well-known member
I'll let the Uzi speak for it's self.
This was my first Uzi target ever.
This was my first Uzi target ever.
I've never had a semi-auto UZI. The 16 inch barrel doesn't look right, defeats the CQB effectiveness, and is a constant reminder how stupid our NFA regulations are. That said, no UZI is a BAD UZI. The original and mini were at the top of the SMG hill for such a long time, for a reason....
Caprice, I also am a retired trooper, 28 years, 24 as a sniper on a team. I have found lately while I travel daily, that I carry my Uzi more than my other guns. Size is a big considerration why. The original question deals with a 16 inch barrel. I now have a 10 inch on it. I was at the river last weekend and with my eotech mounted on it, I can easily hit targets out to 200 yards with it, short or long barrel. I can manuever it inside my truck much easier than the longer barreled rifles I own. Once use to the smaller platform and caliber, I have NO problems with it being my primary gun now with my Glock 34 as the back up.
cwo4uscgret
Active member
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2011
- Messages
- 25
Depending on the situation - I would not hesitate to use it if I needed to. I have shotguns, ARs, AKs, FALs, Sig 551/556, Galil, and bunches of handguns - they all have their purposes but I'd use the Uzi Model B semi-auto...
I have a 16" Norinco carbine 9mm. While no firearm I have found will fill all needs, the Uzi fills part of my needs. I keep 4,000 9mm primers, bullets, and powder that can be converted into ammo to feed any of my 9mm's. Here are some other reasons I consider my Uzi more then just a plinker:
Low recoil, high capacity mags make it good for laying down fairly accurate cover fire, or initial superior firepower.
Mine is minute of man accurate out to at least 100-yards.
Wife likes to shoot it and is accurate with it due to low recoil.
Simple mechanics with low parts failure on mine.
Mine doesn't really care if it's cleaned or not up to many hundreds of rounds-so low maintenance.
Excellent close in firearm for home defense.
Again, IMO the Uzi does not do everything well, but is a great addition to the firearms tool box.
Low recoil, high capacity mags make it good for laying down fairly accurate cover fire, or initial superior firepower.
Mine is minute of man accurate out to at least 100-yards.
Wife likes to shoot it and is accurate with it due to low recoil.
Simple mechanics with low parts failure on mine.
Mine doesn't really care if it's cleaned or not up to many hundreds of rounds-so low maintenance.
Excellent close in firearm for home defense.
Again, IMO the Uzi does not do everything well, but is a great addition to the firearms tool box.
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