Semiauto UZI - Serious tool or a Range Toy?

[Twinsen]

I agree that ballistic gel does not mimic bone. It mimics only muscle. However, 5.56 will do better against bone than 9mm as well. In a 16" barrel, you've dropped from 3250fps to 3100fps. Still screaming 700 fps better than 7.62x39. If ballistics gel (similar to dense rubber) tests do not sway you, look at actual human wound data. A torso hit is almost entirely unsurvivable, even with those FMJ projectiles in $0.30 ammo that was standard back in the 1960s.

Jamming issues with 5.56 in early M16s was due to NATO changing powders after the rifles were made. It was horrible, but it was the fault of a bunch of stupid bureaucrats. An AR-15 can go through half of a barrel's life without cleaning and not experience a single malfunction. I've done it.

 

[Deputy276]

With all due respect to your personal experience, that was literally 49 years ago. What you describe are well known and documented ammunition problems with the early adoption of 5.56x45mm. Even the "Blackhawk Down" incident was 24 years ago. Modern ballistic science has changed dramatically, 5.56 has proven to be quite accurate and plenty lethal within the typical infantry engagement range, even out of a 12-14" barrel. It also exhibits excellent penetration of body armor and drastic wound-channel characteristics both of which can be attributed to the extremely high muzzle velocity, so Twinsen is correct in this regard. This is backed up by literally thousands of first-hand battle reports from Iraq.

This does not mean there is not a place for a larger caliber, or even a full-bore 30-cal "battle rifle", but the ideas that your putting forth about the inefficacy of 5.56x45 (especially relating to 9x19) are outdated at best, if not borderline silly.

At best, it's a police/civilian caliber. It has crap range and penetration and there have been numerous complaints from troops in the field about lack of killing power beyond 300 meters. Which is further than the round was ever intended to go for human applications. It's a VARMIT CALIBER and that's it. If the enemy is ever a woodchuck, groundhog, or squirrel, we are all set. Many location in the US forbid it's use to hunt deer because of it's lack of lethality. I will say that the girly-men and females in the military like that it is nice and light. If the SHTF, I have plenty of .30/06 or 7.62NATO rifles to pick from. No mousegun calibers in my inventory. Heck, I'll take my Uzi in 9MM over a mouse caliber. "Bigger holes make deader souls". Even better of it is in .45ACP.

 

[Deputy276]

I agree that ballistic gel does not mimic bone. It mimics only muscle. However, 5.56 will do better against bone than 9mm as well. In a 16" barrel, you've dropped from 3250fps to 3100fps. Still screaming 700 fps better than 7.62x39. If ballistics gel (similar to dense rubber) tests do not sway you, look at actual human wound data. A torso hit is almost entirely unsurvivable, even with those FMJ projectiles in $0.30 ammo that was standard back in the 1960s.

Jamming issues with 5.56 in early M16s was due to NATO changing powders after the rifles were made. It was horrible, but it was the fault of a bunch of stupid bureaucrats. An AR-15 can go through half of a barrel's life without cleaning and not experience a single malfunction. I've done it.

Then why does every mousegun you can buy have a bolt assist on it? Hmmm?

 

[Twinsen]

They don't.

 

[StooperZero]

ound:bang

 

[decay]

THE IDF used the Uzi for over 50 years !
45. suppress very quietly !
for small game hunting and home defense it is perfect!

 

[Mackjack]

I vote toy. Being that it is a converted semi auto from full auto open bolt.... it will never be quite up there with an AK or AR. The real world reliability isn't there for when tshtf

 

[Suprasonic]

As per the original question regarding the full-size Uzi with the 16” barrel, I’d say serious tool, but that long barrel does add some ridiculousness and unwieldiness to its appearance and function. It’s a military-derived firearm that has a good deal of conflict experience under its belt, and was designed to be extremely durable, simple to service, and reliable.

Through this thread other questions came up, regarding home defense and survival/end-of-world scenarios. These are of course more personal opinions than any thing, analyzing the size, weight, caliber, and other factors of not only the Uzi but any and all guns available. It all comes down to individual choice, what factors a person ranks higher than others. I think you could do much worse holding on to an Uzi when you hear the sound of a window breaking in your home or the “collapse of western civilization” happens. An Uzi is well-build, robust, reliable, battle-proven, and uses the most common ammo throughout the world. It’s not the most powerful, long-range, most devastating bullet available, but it does kill, as millions of victims around the world could attest to. Honestly, in an end-of-the-world situation, you would need a small selection of firearms to do everything and probably throw in a crossbow or longbow into the mix. I think that planning and strategy for such an event is much more important, and you could taylor your planning and preparation to the weapon you choose.

Just my two cents...

 

[Ulwembu]

Shot one of the Dutch Subgun Competition matches yesterday with my semi Norinco M320 UZI. It ran great, me not so much LOL. Came in 9th. In the about 20K rounds I've fired through this thing the only part I ever exchanged due to wear was the trigger/disconnector due to one of the sides of the disconnector being worn to the point it released one of the wires of the spring constantly. This resulted in the gun not firing.

 

[scottz63]

Shot one of the Dutch Subgun Competition matches yesterday with my semi Norinco M320 UZI. It ran great, me not so much LOL. Came in 9th. In the about 20K rounds I've fired through this thing the only part I ever exchanged due to wear was the trigger/disconnector due to one of the sides of the disconnector being worn to the point it released one of the wires of the spring constantly. This resulted in the gun not firing.

Still running the same barrel?

 

[Ulwembu]

Yes. I exchanged it early on for a standard length UZI FA barrel that I had fitted for the semi receiver. I bought the gun new in box and exchanged the barrel within a few months. I wanted a shorter barrel but didn't want to cut the 16" barrel that came with it. Our minimum length is 12" so I ordered an original FA barrel of 10" and had a compensator added to get to 12". Still using this barrel today.

 

[scottz63]

Nice! Still as accurate as it was after all those rounds as well?

 

[Ulwembu]

Still groups nicely but I have to admit I never go further than 50 yards with it.

 

[Rave]

I think its a great SHTF weapon for the very same reason I think a 1911 pistol is a great back-up SHTF pistol. Simple. It is proven TO KILL PEOPLE. Were the UZI not effective at KILLING PEOPLE it would never have been adopted by Armies all over the world.
One thing is for certain - when a military force evaluates a weapon considering buying say 10,000 or 100,000 of them - they want to make sure they can KILL PEOPLE if need be.
It seems these armies have no need for a weapon that massages people to death, tickles people to death - or forces them to choke on their own vomit (or someone else's vomit) -- no, they seem to like the tried and true method of a precision instrument that punches holes in people really well - like the UZI. If it is good enough for them - its good enough for me in SHTF.

Although I hear good things about the Lorcin .380.........

I dunno but according to write ups the 9mm from a 16" barrel has the power of a 357 mag from a 4" barrel with out all the fuss(blast,flash,recoil,that's not a toy IMHO.

 

[mac66]

Been a long time gone but just getting back into my semi UZI.

Pistol Caliber Carbines (PCC) have become more popular in recent years. With Ruger coming out with a new take down 9mm PCC it made me go dig around and pull out my old UZI carbine.

If you think about it, it is a pretty good PCC. It takes down both in terms of the barrel and stock (folding or removable) and makes a small package when broken down. It has caliber conversions. Mags are plentiful and relatively cheap.

I bought a virgin receiver years ago and registered it as a pistol so I can put a pistol brace on it and short barrel without having to SBR it. That in itself brings it back into the realm of practicality. Not to mention I can carry it that way with my concealed pistol license (which is required in my state to have it loaded in the passenger compartment of a vehicle).

 

[124NATO]

I think in most situations anything will do. Either the person asking the question has land and guns which equals options for them OR for most there in a dense city situation where most will work ( pistol, rilfe , pcc, potato Cannon ?) and in that situation I is probably way better to stay hunkered down.

Just my 2 c for what's it worth

 

[Mick7.62]

Necropost?

 

[sniperdoc]

The Norinco 320 I had would eat up a B29 target at 200 yards, and could hit one approx 50% @ 300. OTOH, the same can be done with a Beretta M9, with proper training. The M9 is just harder and slower.

I have no idea how lethal either would be at 300 yards, but I wouldn't want to be the guy who was shot with either at that distance.

9mm will probably be easier than most calibers to find in an EOTWAWKI situation than most, especially if you happen to be outside the U.S., and is definitely lighter than almost all other "serious" pistol caliber rounds (&rifle rounds), as well as being the most prevalent round that can be interchanged between a Carbine/SMG and pistol, which allows you to carry only 1 type of Cartridge.

 

[Machines]

I feel it's a capable gun, but I can't think of a reason I'd pick it over something else if I had a choice. For a PCC it lakes features and weighs a ton. Plus, PCCs in general are civilian range novelties and military subgun use is way down. You can get a short AR in .223 that's lighter and does everything better except have a fully folding stock.

 

[TomZ]

Toy in semi auto

Boy you guys can really range off topic, I thought he asked a simple question is it or is it not a plinker or a serious defense weapon. Owning a few myself I say beer can shooter.