Silencer "Inserts?"

[sniperdoc]

I'm wondering if there's an answer, whether ATF Letter, or any other reliable source, that specifically forbids the following:

1) An empty Tube, with removable Forecap and permanently attached Endcap, as the "Registered Component", and a Pin inside the Silencer to index the following;
2) Separate, sealed Tubes (not capable of being directly attached to a Barrel) containing Baffles, which can be inserted into the "Silencer", held in place by pressure from the Silencer's Endcap and a Belville Washer on the Forecap. These Tubes would be precisely fitted to the inner diameter of the Outer "Silencer" Tube, eliminating any chance of Baffle Strike, and have a slot machined into, but not through, the sealed Endcap of this Tube.
3) Alternately, if ATF/NFA forbids the above, the Forecap could become a part of the sealed Tubes, each Tube having its own, permanently attached, Forecap, which would screw onto the "Silencer". (This may be preferable, as these could be marked with the appropriate Caliber designation.)

The purpose of this design is for a "Modular Silencer", which would use a single registered part, with interchangeable "Baffle Tubes", thereby allowing the user to choose between Calibers without having to either use an oversized Silencer (5.56 in a 7.62 can, etc) to shoot multiple calibers, or buy multiple Silencers.

 

[Fulliautomatix]

Just spit-balling, but this sounds to me like it would the same thing as what we have with most current pistol suppressors, which is a 'baffle stack' which consists of individual baffles which click together and slide into the suppressor body. The purpose of your proposed design is to have (1) interchangeable baffles for the purpose of (2) interchangeable caliber use, and as a side purpose of not having (3) multiple silencers or have an (4) oversized suppressor. Here are some problems I see with this concept.

(1) The ATF has deemed spare baffles as suppressors... restricted/controlled items. You can not have them laying about as spares or 'alternates' unless you are a properly licensed FFL 07/SOT2 (manufacturer of firearms including NFA regulated). (ie: send your suppressor back to a manufacturer to have it re-cored)
(2) A suppressor has a declared caliber of use on the 5320 forms. You can shoot sub-calibers through it, but actually changing components in it without an FFL 07/SOT2 would very likely put you in legal jeopardy.
(3) While I like your idea, this is not why the ATF is here (ie: make things more convenient for firearm owners).
(4) Is there such a thing as an over-sized suppressor? (aside from weight hanging off a tilting barrel, but it sounds like you're thinking rifle calibers) Regardless, if I'm grasping your concept correctly, your diameter is going to be fixed, but the aperture will be variable as you swap the modules. In this design, you're keeping the same volume across any caliber and more volume is always better for performance. Additionally, you will likely be adding weight by having sealed modules around the baffles which you're proposing to swap in/out. If you were thinking about changing between pistol and rifle calibers, there may also be issues with design pressures. A can capable of handling rifle pressures will need to be a much stouter design than one capable of only pistol pressures.

But all of this (in my opinion) comes back to the fact that you're going to need to have interchanegable (spare) suppressor parts laying about, which is only allowable for FFL07/SOT2 holders.

 

[sniperdoc]

Just spit-balling, but this sounds to me like it would the same thing as what we have with most current pistol suppressors, which is a 'baffle stack' which consists of individual baffles which click together and slide into the suppressor body. The purpose of your proposed design is to have (1) interchangeable baffles for the purpose of (2) interchangeable caliber use, and as a side purpose of not having (3) multiple silencers or have an (4) oversized suppressor. Here are some problems I see with this concept.

(1) The ATF has deemed spare baffles as suppressors... restricted/controlled items. You can not have them laying about as spares or 'alternates' unless you are a properly licensed FFL 07/SOT2 (manufacturer of firearms including NFA regulated). (ie: send your suppressor back to a manufacturer to have it re-cored)
(2) A suppressor has a declared caliber of use on the 5320 forms. You can shoot sub-calibers through it, but actually changing components in it without an FFL 07/SOT2 would very likely put you in legal jeopardy.
(3) While I like your idea, this is not why the ATF is here (ie: make things more convenient for firearm owners).
(4) Is there such a thing as an over-sized suppressor? (aside from weight hanging off a tilting barrel, but it sounds like you're thinking rifle calibers) Regardless, if I'm grasping your concept correctly, your diameter is going to be fixed, but the aperture will be variable as you swap the modules. In this design, you're keeping the same volume across any caliber and more volume is always better for performance. Additionally, you will likely be adding weight by having sealed modules around the baffles which you're proposing to swap in/out. If you were thinking about changing between pistol and rifle calibers, there may also be issues with design pressures. A can capable of handling rifle pressures will need to be a much stouter design than one capable of only pistol pressures.

But all of this (in my opinion) comes back to the fact that you're going to need to have interchanegable (spare) suppressor parts laying about, which is only allowable for FFL07/SOT2 holders.

Re: "Oversized"; I was referring to the actual holes in the Baffles,

I understand about ATF's opinion on extra parts, but they did approve some "modular" designs in which a section of the Silencer can be removed, allowing the user to choose between a long or short Silencer, and I am unsure how that works.
It would definitely be nice if ATF was there to help gun owners!

 

[mattnh]

Based on the modular approval, dunno, you might be able to get by with a modular stack design that
incorporated all of the calibers simultaneously, but it would be registered in the smallest cal.
i.e
forecap + basetube
45 section
38/9mm section
30 section
22 section
endcap

 

[sniperdoc]

Based on the modular approval, dunno, you might be able to get by with a modular stack design that
incorporated all of the calibers simultaneously, but it would be registered in the smallest cal.
i.e
forecap + basetube
45 section
38/9mm section
30 section
22 section
endcap

That is a valid point, but would be the least desirable configuration due to length (although perhaps the only legal way to do it). Fully assembled, I think it would be over 2 feet long.

 

[Fishman]

There needs to be a configuration incorporating all the parts. Sniper doc is right, the "full" configuration using every part would be at least 2 feet long.

 

[slimshady]

There needs to be a configuration incorporating all the parts. Sniper doc is right, the "full" configuration using every part would be at least 2 feet long.

That's how it would be sold, as a single unit incorporating everything. As with current modular designs one can shorten it using only some of the baffles/components and leave the rest in the box. Caliber would be an issue though, as obviously a .45 is not going to pass through a .22 specific baffle and ATF requires the largest caliber it is used for to be declared on the paperwork. You would have to register it as a .22 or whatever would pass through the smallest baffles and say the larger baffles on the end are to compensate for misalignment. Dunno if ATF would have a problem with someone popping .45s through a .22 suppressor though.

 

[nklf]

What if you went at this from a different direction. Could you build a suppressor that uses a ported barrel that extends the length of the suppressor. You then build different caliber barrels that fit the same suppressor. It would not be cheap to machine the barrels but the barrels themselves would not be NFA items. Your Glock would look strange with a 10” barrel but I’ve shot stranger things.

 

[Openspaces]

Honestly I think there’s a way to get at what you’re asking but not sure there’s a manufacturer incentive to make it. Or if they made it then the price may make it less desirable versus buying a couple suppressors. I’m still a small player in the NFA world but I’ve bought into the suppressor mantra that if you buy 3 suppressors. a rimfire, pistol, rifle suppressor you have purpose built suppressors that likely function better than a hybrid/do all option.

 

[sniperdoc]

Honestly I think there’s a way to get at what you’re asking but not sure there’s a manufacturer incentive to make it. Or if they made it then the price may make it less desirable versus buying a couple suppressors. I’m still a small player in the NFA world but I’ve bought into the suppressor mantra that if you buy 3 suppressors. a rimfire, pistol, rifle suppressor you have purpose built suppressors that likely function better than a hybrid/do all option.

I understand. I was thinking of a multi caliber Silencer that would only require a buyer to pay 1 tax stamp, wait once, and travel to an NFA shop once (nearest to me is over 100 miles, I'm sure others live further)
It would be a bit heavier than a dedicated Silencer, due to the Inserts, but much.
I expect the cost would be approx the same as buying individual Silencers, but you would only pay 1 transfer tax, so it would still save a few hundred dollars.