Since it appears Suppressors have a high chance of becoming firearms...a tax question for manufacturing

[ScottinTexas]

If the Senate keeps the House bill regarding suppressors and removes them from NFA taxes and registration, does that also remove any manufacturing taxes?

It occurred to me that obviously every suppressor manufactured for retail requires a Form 1....and assuming the manufacturer also paying a Form 1 tax, is it $200, $5, or some other amount?

I can't get a direct, clear answer from my internet queries so does anyone here know the answer?

 

[ferndog1]

I'm pretty sure manufacturers do tax free form 2's to register NFA items.

 

[ScottinTexas]

Makes sense.

I just found an article that speculates manufacturers will probably pay an excise tax based on value vs. the fixed cost associated with “normal” BATF forms…but I’m probably wrong about that too.

 

[strobro32]

If congress removes suppressors from the NFA then there should be no NFA registration and no tax. Because of the GCA, you will still need to fill out a 4473 to purchase one. I'm not sure about making a suppressor.

Phone, text and email your sen rep to support and pass the HPA, Hearing Protection Act .

 

[ScottinTexas]

This is a case of imperfect legislation, and removing them from the NFA is a good move.

Unfortunately, these politicians want to reclassify them as "firearms', which is completely illogical and a terrible precedent to set. There's no reason why these same politicians won't put aftermarket triggers into the "firearms" category. And any other part they can reclassify they will, eventually, under the favorable Administration.

Anyway, can't do anything about that; my main interest is what happens to new suppressor prices and secondarily, will the used suppressor market explode?

Right now it appears we will eventually get a $200 overall cost reduction, with roughly 10% clawed back in the form of a manufacturer's wholesale cost excise tax. And used suppressors will pressure the new suppressor market downward.

 

[slimshady]

They were already classified as an NFA firearm, that is everything in the NFA is a firearm first, then the actual designation being a subcategory.
I have not read the actual text of the law, but if all it does is remove the NFA category of suppressors, while leaving it considered a firearm which would require 4473 of course, then it seems to me it's legal status would be the same as the Mossberg shockwave and similar items. It is a firearm requiring the paperwork needed to sell a firearm, but it meets no other subcategory definition. Unless they make a new one for suppressors.

In that case it would be the same as any other firearm that wasn't NFA. State law notwithstanding, you can buy and sell privately without paperwork, building your own would be a possibility.

As for used suppressors flooding the market, I would think with the hurdles to suppressor ownership gone demand would far exceed supply for a while at least. I can see numerous new suppressor manufacturers as well as established companies diversifying into them. For Ruger after decades of being resistant to selling NFA items to the General public came out with a few suppressors that they sell now. I think other firearm companies would follow suit especially with no special NFA rules to follow.

In addition, since there is no added tax. The construction of them would not have to be durable enough to make them a lifetime purchase. Whereas now even the most basic 22 suppressor is a few hundred dollars at least, they don't need to be. A manufacturer could take a simple thin wall tube, stamp out simply designed baffles, and machine a couple end caps for just a few dollars. Being so cheap one will not have to worry about being able to clean it so simple assembly such as a groove in the end caps and the tube crimped onto it would make a very cheap assembly process. A simple suppressor for a 22 that might have a retail in the $30 range maybe even less. At that cost after firing a few thousand rounds through it and it may be getting less effective one would consider it disposable.

I remember seeing in one of the silencer books someone had a picture of suppresses being sold in a country where they were unregulated and indeed were encouraged to be used for noise pollution reduction. There was several in one of those little pop up display boxes like you see beside the register at a hardware store. Only instead of selling screwdrivers they were selling suppressors.

And no longer being NFA, quite possibly imported ones might become available.

 

[r]

i thought the admin's opinion to begin with(before any bills were fleshed out) was suppressors are not firearms but accessories and should not be regulated at all by the fed gov in any form. this is just the first step(getting rid of the tax). next step no fed paperwork (paperwork(read database) is only for future confiscation anyway). once no fed paperwork when states try to regulate fed will say your have NO authority to control accessories.

 

[slimshady]

Well that's a double-edged sword. Only arms are protected by the second amendment. If a suppressor isn't an arm but merely an accessory then it could be easily banned without any constitutional issues.

The recent court arguments on suppressors being protected by the second amendment, the people on the side of suppressors are arguing that the federal government already defines a suppressor as a firearm in the NFA, so by the government's own regulations it is an arm and therefore covered by the second amendment. The government's counter argument is they are not firearms and that they are really a firearm accessory despite what the law defines them as. And not being a firearm or a critical component needed to make a firearm work, they can be regulated, taxed, or even banned if they wanted to.

Unfortunately when one is dealing with the government one has to look at every regulation and law and change in them in a worst case scenario. By taking away the second amendment protections on suppressors today and making them over the counter like buying a scope or a holster, you're opening up a future ban or onerous paperwork and taxes like you have now. With no recourse to claim that they are protected by the 2A. We have seen a wonderful shift away from gun control and more to gun rights for the average citizen in the last two decades or so. Unfortunately it could just as easily swing back the other way I and in trying to expand our rights we may actually be opening the door for future situations where it is even worse than it was.

 

[cvasqu03]

The real double edged sword is about availability. Once anyone can get them with a form 4473 like regular firearms, I'd expect that there'd be a run on them as everyone who didn't want to go through all the paperwork in the past, now suddenly decides to get in on the game. Manufacturers would surely step up and new ones would emerge, but it would probably take a while for supply to catch up and it would probably cause an INCREASE in price of available stock until things settle back down.

I'm thinking about what happened after Obama's re-election, when all of a sudden everyone was trying to buy guns and ammo. Around that time, one retailer told me that Black Hills ammo had said to him that they'd sold three years worth of ammo production in the span of two weeks (I know it's hearsay so take is as you will). It will be interesting to see what happens with suppressors, especially any models that are chronically out of stock or on back-order.

 

[cvasqu03]

I was thinking some more about this. I'm wondering if we'd also see an increase in the use of those oil filter adapters. I've heard of people doing this already but the only way to do it legally right now is to go the $200 stamp path which means you have to do it every time you attach a new filter to the adapter (or something thereabout - I'm not sure there's much case law on it). Since technically, you can make your own firearm without having to serialize it (unless you're going to sell it), you could make a thread adapter that would screw into a commercially available filter and just throw away the filter once done like if you were disposing of a blown out frame or receiver. Or maybe you'd have to put a serial number on the adapter and count that as the firearm (like I said, there'd probably be a lot of case law to be written on this). Yeah, I know those are actually pretty lousy cans, but if this pans out, I can easily see people starting to evaluate which (if any) filters would be acceptable or better for specific calibers. Of course, this all depends on this actually happening and becoming legal, which is still not a certainty.

 

[slimshady]

Currently the oil filter suppressors, the replaceable filter is considered a silencer part so in order to be legal you have to send it back to a silencer manufacturer to have them swap it out. There is no tax on it just a stupidity requiring you to pay shipping and a nominal fee to have someone basically unscrew a light bulb for you. There's a joke or at least a country song in there somewhere.

Assuming all the laws pass that remove suppressors from the NFA and no special regulations apply that wouldn't apply to a normal firearm, then just going down to AutoZone and buying a replacement suppressor part should be legal for you to replace it yourself. The big question is whether the regulation that says each part of a suppressor is a suppressor is going to stay. Under ATFs current interpretation if something is intended to be a suppressor part even though it has other uses it is a suppressor part. How they went after the solvent traps. In which case buying a filter with the intent of putting onto your adapter would mean you're buying a suppressor part, which technically would mean AutoZone would have to become an FFL and fill out a 4473 on each suppressor filter.

 

[azakms]

Here is an interesting one, RPB was responsible for getting the ATF to consider all parts of a silencer controlled parts. Back in the day they would sell the "MAC in a sack" (all the parts needed to build your own NFA M10) along with all the parts but one to make your own silencer with the last part needed on the next table at the gun show. They also made an adapter that had M10 or M11 threads on one side and a soda bottle thread on the other (ATF was not amused).
I'm guessing if they become a title 1 firearm, just the body would be controlled part like a firearm receiver and the rest is just parts.