Stupid M11

[sigfla]

Darn thing broke the rear plate weld today while firing. Off to the smith it goes and I hope he fixes it right. The stupid thing is brand new. Weld broke after only 200 rounds or so right after I get it running right.

Might as well get it Sten converted while I am at it anyhow. I NEED MY UZI NOW!!!!!

 

[stymie]

???

Are you using +p+ ammo?

Is your buffer worn out?

Have you made any modifications from standard configuration?

 

[sigfla]

New Buffer. I am using Hirtenberg ammo in the gun. Dealer told me to use the hottest I could find. I did however fire a couple of mags without a buffer at all just to see how the gun would react. The thing ran fine but it was after that I noticed the break in the weld (dunno if it was there before).

Took it out today and the piece totally came off. The backing plate it sits up against (the one with the 2 holes for the recoil rod and ejector) was bent outward significantly on the side the sight plate came loose. I wonder if it was bent during assembly then the plate was welded onto it.


The gun was supposed to have been NIB when bought. No visible wear on it when purchased. I believe it may have just been a rush job when assembled. Either way it is an excuse for me to send to get sten converted and re welded. Should be an easy fix. The rear site plate on a mac is a replaceable item. I am just not a welder.

Being a lefty shooter anyway I would just feel much safer shooting an open bolt gun that is put together better than the M11. I am ready for my Uzi and M16 to get here.

 

[stymie]

True e'nuff...

Hirtenberger +p+ is a major NO NO in a MAC11/9 smg.

Shooting w/o a buffer... or a well worn one... will bend out the recoil plate & sight plate... breaking the welds just as you described.

Why STEN mags? They're horrible!

 

[stymie]

new ZYTELS...

...are cheap in quantity, don't require any lubrication to function properly & they are very lightweight. Most STEN mags that I come across need new springs & aren't particularly easy to load either.

I've got at least 1K rds through one of my zytels & it still works like new. The secret is to eliminate vertical play between the upper & lower receivers at the rear... to keep the feedlips from dragging on the bolt. Even if they do wear eventually.... that is easily remedied w/ Richard Lage's steel feedlip kit.

If steel mags are your thing on an M11/9 ...Madsens work very well as a substitute... & you don't have to hack up your weapon.

 

[Vegas SMG]

The buffer is there for a reason... to prevent the bolt from smashing into the back of the receiver! The M11 buffer is so thin that removing it won't appreciably reduce the ROF. +P+ is generally good in open bolt subguns but not in the thin skinned, welded receiver, M11.

I never considered the STEn mag conversation as an option for a couple of reasons. Seldom are any mags as good as factory produced. (IMI contract vs. USA brand) I never had any problems with the factory Zytels after thousands of rounds and yep, they're still plentiful and can be had for under $20.00. Another plus is the fact that these are sooo much easier to load than any other mags for the M11. I bought some metal mags from Jerry Prasser at Recon Ordnance that I liked a lot, still priced at under $20.00 each.

Not bashing the STEn mag conversation, just never saw a need for it. Everyone I've heard that's had it done loves it and the dirt cheap mags are a consideration. Just back off the +P+ and you'll be fine.

 

[sigfla]

Thanks for advice. At my dealers defense he didn't specifically recommend +p+ for the mac. He just said hotter the better for open bolt guns. I really bought the stuff for my uzi more or less but since I don't have it in my hands I have been shooting it in the mac.

And yeah, the macs don't seem to like it much. I probably broke the weld myself when I shot the gun w/out the buffer. I will have it re-welded. I am using madsen mags right now but they shimmy in the gun alot and fall out. I ordered an rpb madsen shim and will see how that works.

 

[stymie]

Mag Catch...

You can get a slightly different steel mag catch for the Madsens or drill 2 screw holes in the back of the magwell for the sleeve (this is hidden when the grips are reinstalled). The Madsens are more rectangular than the trapezoidal ZYTELS. Although there is moderate side to side play at the rear of the Madsens... I have yet to have one malfunction or drop our from vibration. Your catch is not properly mating with the cut on the back of the mag.

 

[stymie]

Jerry Prasser's mags...

work great... but they interfere with the stock rails.

 

[UZI SBR AWC]

Find a race car chassis builder in your area that does TIG, go look at his work, if looks professional welds, have him do it for you. You could MIG, but TIG be the way to go.


You do not need no +P or +P+ ammo in a M11-9,, that thing will run on the cheapest stuff you can find or reload. I used 115gr Win Value pack ammo in the last 2 M11 SMG I borrowed for subgun shoots. My M11-9 semi eats lead reloads to no end.

 

[tommygun2000]

I'd get the gun fixed and send your dealer

New Buffer. I am using Hirtenberg ammo in the gun. Dealer told me to use the hottest I could find. I did however fire a couple of mags without a buffer at all just to see how the gun would react. The thing ran fine but it was after that I noticed the break in the weld (dunno if it was there before).

Took it out today and the piece totally came off. The backing plate it sits up against (the one with the 2 holes for the recoil rod and ejector) was bent outward significantly on the side the sight plate came loose. I wonder if it was bent during assembly then the plate was welded onto it.


The gun was supposed to have been NIB when bought. No visible wear on it when purchased. I believe it may have just been a rush job when assembled. Either way it is an excuse for me to send to get sten converted and re welded. Should be an easy fix. The rear site plate on a mac is a replaceable item. I am just not a welder.

Being a lefty shooter anyway I would just feel much safer shooting an open bolt gun that is put together better than the M11. I am ready for my Uzi and M16 to get here.

the bill for the repairs. The guy must be a complete moron, recommending the use of +P+ ammo in a gun like a MAC. That ammo is made for a heavy duty submachine gun, not a light weight machine pistol.
I fired a couple of mags through mine and instantly knew not to shoot any more through it. Macs should use only standard velocity ammo or even slightly subloaded ammo.
That dealer would go to the bottom of my list for seeking any kind of advice from this point forward,....he's obviously "CLUELESS".

 

[sigfla]

Let me clarify again. I don't want to flame my dealer on the forum for something that wasn't really his fault. He hasn't steered me wrong on anything else I have bought from him and he has been a pretty good guy overall. All he suggested I do was use hotter ammo in open bolts. He didn't specify the mac or anything else.

I specifically bought the stuff b/c I heard it was good on this forum and I was purchasing an Uzi. The weld probably wouldn't have broken if not for my using the gun w/out the buffer installed. It was just me playing around with the thing to try to get it to run. In fact the M11 board at Cobray even suggested that the use of Hirt in the mac was ok. It does beat the gun up a bit and I have to say it does so noticably. However, since I bent my backing plate up it took a hell of a lot of HARD hits with a hammer to get it straight again. I am sure the combo of no buffer, +p ammo, a bad/quick weld job in the rush to produce the RR, and the jackhammer effect of the bolt hitting it under FA is probably what did it in the first place. Anyway, easy and cheap fix. Thats why I bought the M11 in the first place; as an entry gun into C3. Next time I won't make the mistake and I certainly won't do it in a more expensive C3 item.