Super Safety Review
- Thread starter strobro32
- Start date
ScottinTexas
UZI Talk Life Member
So...super late to this party but now I'm interested enough to consider picking up a couple of 'kits'.
I've read and re-read this thread and please correct if I err, but here is what I think is the latest experience / thinking on these kits:
Parts / Components
Barrels: CMMG dedicated .22LR w/detent groove, 12 -16" (length is not proven).
Bolt Group: .22 Conversion Bolt, CMMG stainless with collar and detent (mitigates bolt bounce / light strikes)
Bolt Weight: CMMG stainless (lowest friction, proven design)
Super Safety trip kit: Borebuddy steel and aluminum adjustable
Pistol lower: (issue with longer barrel length?) with a low shelf (pocket behind the selector shaft is lower than the selector shaft; Anderson qualifies)
Brace: Magpul (probably any brace with buffer tube plug would work fine)
Upper Receiver: RTB dedicated CMMG 9" upper (or build your own with the CMMG barrel / collar setup)
Charging handle: Borebuddy or CMMG (or just fill in gas tube groove of standard handle with epoxy / JB Weld; just keeps empties from jamming)
Pressure plug for buffer tube: Bore Buddy pressure plug (proven to reduce FTF)
Super Safety: GMR Super Safety or DeezNuts D2 tool steel version either with steel levers
Stick Magazines: S&W M&P15-22 (requires BooniePacker M&P15-22 to AR15 magwell adapter)
Drum Magazines: Blackdog 50 rd with S&W M&P15-22 towers (requires BooniePacker M&P15-22 to AR15 magwell adapter)
Modifications / Enhancements
Suppressor (backpressure helps)
Clip 2 coils from safety detent spring (more or less; reduce drap on trip)
Polish / smooth contact arc on the trip
Download M&P15-22 mags by 2-3 rounds
Ammo
CCI Minimag
CCI Blazer
Negative Results
Plastic dedicated .22 levers
Other combinations of BoreBuddy and CMMG components
Barrel / bolt combos without the detent design (i.e. Atchison insert)
Please correct me if I have made any mistakes. And thanks for spending so much time and money figuring this out.
I've read and re-read this thread and please correct if I err, but here is what I think is the latest experience / thinking on these kits:
Parts / Components
Barrels: CMMG dedicated .22LR w/detent groove, 12 -16" (length is not proven).
Bolt Group: .22 Conversion Bolt, CMMG stainless with collar and detent (mitigates bolt bounce / light strikes)
Bolt Weight: CMMG stainless (lowest friction, proven design)
Super Safety trip kit: Borebuddy steel and aluminum adjustable
Pistol lower: (issue with longer barrel length?) with a low shelf (pocket behind the selector shaft is lower than the selector shaft; Anderson qualifies)
Brace: Magpul (probably any brace with buffer tube plug would work fine)
Upper Receiver: RTB dedicated CMMG 9" upper (or build your own with the CMMG barrel / collar setup)
Charging handle: Borebuddy or CMMG (or just fill in gas tube groove of standard handle with epoxy / JB Weld; just keeps empties from jamming)
Pressure plug for buffer tube: Bore Buddy pressure plug (proven to reduce FTF)
Super Safety: GMR Super Safety or DeezNuts D2 tool steel version either with steel levers
Stick Magazines: S&W M&P15-22 (requires BooniePacker M&P15-22 to AR15 magwell adapter)
Drum Magazines: Blackdog 50 rd with S&W M&P15-22 towers (requires BooniePacker M&P15-22 to AR15 magwell adapter)
Modifications / Enhancements
Suppressor (backpressure helps)
Clip 2 coils from safety detent spring (more or less; reduce drap on trip)
Polish / smooth contact arc on the trip
Download M&P15-22 mags by 2-3 rounds
Ammo
CCI Minimag
CCI Blazer
Negative Results
Plastic dedicated .22 levers
Other combinations of BoreBuddy and CMMG components
Barrel / bolt combos without the detent design (i.e. Atchison insert)
Please correct me if I have made any mistakes. And thanks for spending so much time and money figuring this out.
Scott, I know your history with 22 kits. Do not invest unless you LIKE tinkering. It's a love hate thing.There is no perfect 22LR FA kit. There is a reliability limitation with the ammo. 
I would get the longest barrel upper you are comfortable with for 22LR reliability. 12-16"
A dedicated 22LR upper already 22LR CH to avoid cases getting stuck.
I've owned the Bettermag M&P15-22 to AR15 magwell adapter. I do not recommend it because it fowls too quick. I prefer the magwell clips for 15-22 mags. There's no BHO feature but its a trade off for longer cleaning schedule
.
I would get the longest barrel upper you are comfortable with for 22LR reliability. 12-16"
A dedicated 22LR upper already 22LR CH to avoid cases getting stuck.
I've owned the Bettermag M&P15-22 to AR15 magwell adapter. I do not recommend it because it fowls too quick. I prefer the magwell clips for 15-22 mags. There's no BHO feature but its a trade off for longer cleaning schedule
.
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My previous post was really "tongue in cheek" (thus the emoji), but with an underlying point.
In furtherance of "mental masturbation" or "falling down the rabbit hole"...there's a legitimate point, IMO, to being careful how we / ourselves categorize / normalize the Super Safeties. The whole argument from our side is that they're a device which "enhances" semi-auto function...cycling faster for sure, but semi-auto nonetheless. Period.
The other side (ATF, anti-2nd folk, etc.) see them as machine gun conversion devices and will stop at nothing until they're banned in every state and / or banned under Federal law.
I don't think we do ourselves any favors to group them with, "normalize" them as, or put them in the same "basket" as legitimate full / auto. Because they're not. The internet is everywhere and forever at the same time...and our enemies are watching. Always.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but my opinion nonetheless.
ScottinTexas
UZI Talk Life Member
Agree 100%.Scott, I know your history with 22 kits. Do not invest unless you LIKE tinkering. It's a love hate thing.There is no perfect 22LR FA kit. There is a reliability limitation with the ammo.
I would get the longest barrel upper you are comfortable with for 22LR reliability. 12-16"
A dedicated 22LR upper already 22LR CH to avoid cases getting stuck.
I've owned the Bettermag M&P15-22 to AR15 magwell adapter. I do not recommend it because it fowls too quick. I prefer the magwell clips for 15-22 mags. There's no BHO feature but its a trade off for longer cleaning schedule
.
And yet...
Is this the magwell clip you prefer?
https://www.righttobear.com/catch22-s-w-15-22-magazine-adapter-clip-on-catch22-clip/#product-reviews
Alaska_Shooter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2004
- Messages
- 388
We run a pretty casual match. We scored FRTs/SSs along with MGs. They had to stay in FRT mode throughout.
I like the idea of opening up comps to them even if they’re scored separately. The more shooters who see the ridiculousness of NFA laws the better off we’ll be.
10 years ago, who would ever have thought we’d be talking about removing short barrels and cans from the NFA?
Anti-gunners are going to do anti-gun stuff regardless of what we do. Let’s keep pushing.
I like the idea of opening up comps to them even if they’re scored separately. The more shooters who see the ridiculousness of NFA laws the better off we’ll be.
10 years ago, who would ever have thought we’d be talking about removing short barrels and cans from the NFA?
Anti-gunners are going to do anti-gun stuff regardless of what we do. Let’s keep pushing.
Yes.Agree 100%.
And yet...
Is this the magwell clip you prefer?
https://www.righttobear.com/catch22-s-w-15-22-magazine-adapter-clip-on-catch22-clip/#product-reviews
Don't mistake my advocacy for clear delineation between legitimate F/A and Super Safeties as excluding them. It's not. They definitely have a place, IMO, just not being in the same "basket" as legally-defined F/A.
No disagreement there...I just don't think we should help them. Sometimes playing the game gives us the best chance of winning in the end. We have the court ruling, I believe we should move forward from there.
I don’t follow 2A case law closely, but my understanding is that one of the tests for whether arms are protected under the 2A is whether they are “in common use.” You can’t add new MGs to the registry, so they aren’t going to become any more common.
However, if SS and FRTs proliferate widely and become “in common use,” wouldn’t 2A adversaries be stuck in a Catch 22?
On one hand, if they say SS and FRTs are MGs, then that might lead a court to find that MGs were “in common use,” and thus protected. On the other hand, if they acknowledge that SS and FRTs are not actually MGs, then they aren’t illegal under the current federal laws. Seems like they risk losing either way to me.
I'm certainly not a 2nd scholar either, but as I understand a few things...
-"Common Use" language was used in the Heller decision to help define the template of which "Arms" were protected.
-Are SS/FRTs (or bump stocks for that matter) "Arms?" Or a device? Or an accessory?
-Antonin Scalia wrote in Heller's majority opinion that the 2nd was not absolute or unlimited and its protections did not extend to "dangerous and unusual weapons"...mentioning the M16 specifically, that those could be subject to ban.
Further, we still have state bans. IMO, the future of SS/FRTs won't be written until there's SC challenge to the state bans.
I think this is a bit of a stretch. And while we can agree to disagree...we can all still be supportive of the goal.
Man, you all have a lot more faith in these politicians than I do.
Thankfully, at the moment, the future is looking brighter.
In FL, Gov Desantis, just signed a tax exemption (no tax) for few months with purchases on guns and ammo (which is great) but we have a stupid law, that bans these FRT’s (anything that increases the rate of fire is banned (vague and unconstitutional too IMO), MGs are still okay).
I really wish I had one of these FRTs. (especially, for the HK series).
Thankfully, at the moment, the future is looking brighter.
In FL, Gov Desantis, just signed a tax exemption (no tax) for few months with purchases on guns and ammo (which is great) but we have a stupid law, that bans these FRT’s (anything that increases the rate of fire is banned (vague and unconstitutional too IMO), MGs are still okay).
I really wish I had one of these FRTs. (especially, for the HK series).
I don't want to encourage you to do anything illegal but if your shooting FA as much as you do, no LEO is going to come looking for a SS in your HK or AR.
Some pro2A group should be fighting that BS rule in FL. It's time to send an email.
Some pro2A group should be fighting that BS rule in FL. It's time to send an email.
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Today, a friend sent me a text message today, “Are you shooting machine guns again?”
I said, “Yes. Why?”
He could hear me from his house and it’s 1 mile from me, as the crow flies too.
The kicker is, I was only shooting 9mm, in my mk760.
Kinda crazy, he could hear me that far away. It was a windy day and the wind was blowing towards his place.
Another reason why cans shouldn’t be on the NFA (among a few other things).
As for me, I ain’t going to get one, unless they’re legal. I’ve worked too hard, for what I’ve got.
Yes, I’m hoping GOA or someone else, will get heavily involved with the Gunshine state issues.
pretty sure the 200K mark has been surpassed on the SS and FRT stuff already.
Most places are OOS within a few days of restock.
Most people that buy a SS endup with a few of them just due to price alone.
The FRT cassettes like RB, AZ regulator, and DTT,
are expensive enough they are only selling one two tops per order.
Wouldn't be shocked at all if the numbers are close to the arm brace numbers.
The AR is Americas favorite and most common rifle at this point just due to price alone.
Most places are OOS within a few days of restock.
Most people that buy a SS endup with a few of them just due to price alone.
The FRT cassettes like RB, AZ regulator, and DTT,
are expensive enough they are only selling one two tops per order.
Wouldn't be shocked at all if the numbers are close to the arm brace numbers.
The AR is Americas favorite and most common rifle at this point just due to price alone.
In regards to any NFA weapon, let's look at the plain text of the second amendment. A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. Heller said that the first part was merely a reason stated for the necessity of protecting people's right to keep in their arms. A rather self-serving reason as they were depending on the citizen militia to be their primary means of defending the country. In other words they were betting they're very existence on the people being well-armed enough to repel any invader that attacked their shores. Now it would seem logical that as a result of this they would want the people to have the latest greatest and best weapons available correct? Why on Earth would they handicap their own defense by deciding that certain weapons were just too dangerous or scary to be used?
As a correct reading of Miller shows, according to them the only protected firearms were those useful for military or militia service. When the only people that showed up in the supreme Court was the government and they outright lied that sawed-off shotguns had no use in warfare, despite their common use in world War I trenches, the court with only the evidence presented before it had to rule that shotguns were not protected by the second amendment. Heller technically expanded on that ruling by adding that the natural right of self-defense also included commonly used weapons for that purpose. And that common militia weapons were those that were in common use by the people at the time.
That's where that common use thing comes in. Let's review since the 1950s the US government has determined that the standard issue rifle for every soldier should have full auto capability, and commonly issue full auto only belt fed machine guns. Obviously machine guns are something the government considers useful and necessary in military service.
And yet, the people are limited to a finite supply of machine guns that will of course always dwindle in the future simply from wear and damage.
How do you reconcile that with the stated purpose of arming the militia?
Plus how do you get common use when the government bans something long before it becomes common? Look at the popularity of frt's and super safeties, if instead of spending all that extra money and effort all you had to do was choose the rifle off the rack that had the three positions safety instead of the two, the only difference in parts being maybe a 10 or $20 difference how common would they really be? I would think they would out sell the two position model.
As a correct reading of Miller shows, according to them the only protected firearms were those useful for military or militia service. When the only people that showed up in the supreme Court was the government and they outright lied that sawed-off shotguns had no use in warfare, despite their common use in world War I trenches, the court with only the evidence presented before it had to rule that shotguns were not protected by the second amendment. Heller technically expanded on that ruling by adding that the natural right of self-defense also included commonly used weapons for that purpose. And that common militia weapons were those that were in common use by the people at the time.
That's where that common use thing comes in. Let's review since the 1950s the US government has determined that the standard issue rifle for every soldier should have full auto capability, and commonly issue full auto only belt fed machine guns. Obviously machine guns are something the government considers useful and necessary in military service.
And yet, the people are limited to a finite supply of machine guns that will of course always dwindle in the future simply from wear and damage.
How do you reconcile that with the stated purpose of arming the militia?
Plus how do you get common use when the government bans something long before it becomes common? Look at the popularity of frt's and super safeties, if instead of spending all that extra money and effort all you had to do was choose the rifle off the rack that had the three positions safety instead of the two, the only difference in parts being maybe a 10 or $20 difference how common would they really be? I would think they would out sell the two position model.
So many fail to realize that a SS does nothing to increase, enhance, or change the ROF the firearm is capable of. None of us are Jerry so we need a handicap to shoot as fast as he does. A forced reset lets us, the shooter, keep up with the firearm. As you said, it is merely semi auto.
I'm always pushing things. Ran FA at a practical rifle match today. I run my SS every chance I get. I encourage others to do the same with their gear. I always share my gear too. Shot up at least 1500rnds of 22LR in an afternoon feeding mags to kids that wanted to try a binary trigger when they were the rage. Hell, I basically bought my MG so I could share it!
I am certain I do more to normalize these types of things than most who own them.
The antis love your fear. They feed on it and use it to further their agenda. If you don't fear them they have no power. When people learn these are not magical or special in any way and there is no questions about them they are no longer mystical. Knowledge is more powerful than fear. Teach and show and demonstrate.
I don't think anyone is stating otherwise...you're "preaching to this choir" here. However, it's undeniable that SS/FRTs allows / enables / enhances for a net increase in actual ROF and ability to hold that ROF.
No fear of the antis. Tough talk on an internet board is one thing, however if we're going to beat our enemies (at their own game), it has to be recognized there's a framework of definitions, rulings, laws and courts to be navigated...being careful of the Law of Unintended Consequences. You and I are united in the goal...however, IMO, "Tilting at Windmills" is counterproductive, if not damaging to the cause.
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