SWD “transitional” M11A1?

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Those familiar with the history of these guns are all aware that Wayne Daniel purchased the rights to the M11 when he decided to liquidate the RPB inventory at auction in 1982. He resumed manufacture of the M11 under the SWD brand in 1983. I have seen RPB M11 SMGs that are papered as SWD guns, because they were sold by SWD but built by RPB prior to the liquidation.

That said, I have now also heard of “small grip” SWD M11A1 SMGs out there, but I am yet to see an example of one either in the wild or in pictures. I have now stumbled across a couple of interesting photos online, one of which is a “large grip” M11A1 380 with a zytel mag, with an RPB marked frame and the older MAC/RPB style bolt, the gun is actually one of the “SSM11A1” frames that was originally intended to be a single shot work around to the open bolt legislation, but failed, and they were ultimately built up into SMGs and registered as such (and some slipped through the cracks as semi autos). I have also seen other photos of seemingly early SWD M11A1 SMGs that have the older style bolt, large grip, with SWD markings.

I’m assuming these older bolts were modified to function with the larger zytel magazines. Does anyone have an example of a “small grip” SWD marked M11A1 380? A large grip SWD m11A1 380 with the older style bolt? A large grip M11A1 marked RPB? So far this is the only one I have ever seen like this and I am not sure if it was done aftermarket, but it sure looks to be factory SWD given the park job, welds and even the front takedown pin, which is SWD (could have also been added later)… it seems these are examples of transitional guns, and I’d love to see more if anyone has one.

The SWD marked gun apparently was purchased NIB and came with that bolt. I have seen a couple of the older bolts floating around that were modified for the zytel mags, but they were being sold as spare parts so I don’t know if it was a factory job or something done as an aftermarket modification. It appears that SWD may have done this to some of the early guns and even built a few of the left over RPB frames up into “large grip” guns… I’d assume all of these guns are pre-84 and were all replaced by the standard production SWD large grip guns with the machined bolt somewhere during 84-85

EDIT: added another pic… it’s another example with the old bolt, but it has an 85 serial number… what gives? Was Wayne still using up these bolts as late as 85?? It’s very rare to see this style bolt on these guns, but they are out there apparently

Edit again: upon closer examination, I noticed both the second and third picture guns are missing the safety, at first, I thought maybe they are the same gun, photos taken many years apart and posted on different websites for sale… but the serial number is visible, and it appears that one of them is 380119 and the other is 3800114, so they are five numbers apart, and basically identical, both missing the safety, one of them was being advertised as brand new it’s original box, it’s possible that these never had the safety slider installed being as they are so close in production.

 

[KickStand]

I’ve seen a few SWD M11A1’s with a small mag well. If I recall correctly, the first hundred or so were made by swd were all small magwell guns.

Also, People convert their guns over to large magwell for the use with 9mm ammo (the cfw-A bolt). There’s also people that have converted the large magwell guns to the small magwell (more aesthetically pleasing and better mags for 380).

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I’ve seen a few SWD M11A1’s with a small mag well. If I recall correctly, the first hundred or so were made by swd were all small magwell guns.

Also, People convert their guns over to large magwell for the use with 9mm ammo (the cfw-A bolt). There’s also people that have converted the large magwell guns to the small magwell (more aesthetically pleasing and better mags for 380).

Yea I’m aware of the aftermarket conversions that people do, that’s why I said I think that SSM11 is a factory job with those welds and the well aged appearance of the phosphate, but I am yet to actually see an SWD marked small grip factory gun, I’d love to see an example. It seems to me that SWD wanted to market the hell out of their revolutionary zytel mags, as well as streamline production and use the same magwell for everything. If there’s one thing Wayne was good at, it was maximizing production and using up parts… the earliest production example of the M11/9 SMG utilized the zytel magazine (prototype used an Mp40 mag and semi autos used the sten mags) and all of the SWD 9mm M10 bolts were also made for the single feed zytel…. It seems that they wanted to be able to utilize the same magwell on everything. I wonder if they did still have a few of the small magwells left over after the RPB buyout… I know of completed RPB M11 frames (marked RPB) that were built up into finished guns by SWD and papered by SWD in the early days (apparently some of the RPB guns sold by SWD are marked SWD underneath the plastic grip on the bottom of the frame) but I’m yet to see one of the small magwell guns that is actually marked SWD on the receiver that isn’t someone’s aftermarket conversion.

 

[Loco]

Some of the SWD 380s with small well have the SWD stamp under the plastic grip. You'd never know he'd touched them.

Edit to add: It's also possible that there was an odd receiver flat that was mixed in the stack of guns that were eventually built as large-well 380s. It may have had the RPB logo, and he did not want to waste a registered flat. I bet there's an SWD logo on the magwell, under the grip.

 

[TSPC]

I never noticed it before but mine has the SWD stamp under the grip.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Some of the SWD 380s with small well have the SWD stamp under the plastic grip. You'd never know he'd touched them.

Edit to add: It's also possible that there was an odd receiver flat that was mixed in the stack of guns that were eventually built as large-well 380s. It may have had the RPB logo, and he did not want to waste a registered flat. I bet there's an SWD logo on the magwell, under the grip.

Yep, that’s my thoughts as well. I have noticed the majority of small magwell RPB marked guns that were assembled and sold by SWD were the “SSM11” guns that were originally meant to be single shot pistols until the ATF said Nope, and they had to be registered as machine guns. Most of the RPB small grip 380s I’ve seen that are papered as SWD guns are “SSM11” marked, including that large grip in my original post. I’m thinking he built a couple of them up into large grip guns when they made the switch over to the m10/9 magwell on all of them. Yes, it’s probably marked SWD under the grip.

 

[fishtix]

I have a rpb marked large mag well SSm11-a1 with SWD as the maker. I'll have to check under the grip. My serial is in the 9300's however.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I have a rpb marked large mag well SSm11-a1 with SWD as the maker. I'll have to check under the grip. My serial is in the 9300's however.

Cool! So there were a few of the RPB marked large grip guns! As I figured yours is also marked “SSM11” it seems like basically all of the RPB leftover frames that Wayne used up during the early SWD days were the “SSM11” frames. It might be that they were stowed away in the back of the RPB warehouse when the atf decided they couldn’t sell them, they probably all had the plate welded over the magwell so they just got put off to the side. When Wayne obtained them at the 82 auction he must have removed the plates and built them into SMGs. I think all of the earliest examples of the SWD 380 SMG were built using up these leftover RPB SS frames, including the large grip guns.

 

[Loco]

I never noticed it before but mine has the SWD stamp under the grip.


View attachment 38158

Thanks, man! I wanted a decent pic for my own archives. That's excellent!

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Thanks, man! I wanted a decent pic for my own archives. That's excellent!

There is a pic of that under the grip SWD ATL GA stamp in the MACMAN book. I would love to see if someone has a SMALL grip SWD with SWD rollmark on the receiver, I am yet to see one and don’t know if they ever even made one

 

[TSPC]

Does anyone have an example of a “small grip” SWD marked M11A1 380?

Do you mean marked as in a SWD roll mark on the side of the frame or stamped under the grip?

 

[3154tm]

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[3154tm]

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[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

good image hosting

Awesome!! Somewhat Early serial number on that one also! I wonder if that is one of the SWD 380 mags with the “Cobray” roll mark on it, it doesn’t look like the standard CMP/RPB Mags, feedlips look a bit different. I know SWD had some of their own steel 380 mags with their “Cobray” stamp that were made a bit different than the standard CMP made magazines. Interesting that it has the later style machined bolt even though some of the large grip guns ended up with the older style cast RPB bolts, and the frame is a much lighter color park job than the usual SWD SMG phosphate (they are usually dark black like that upper)… they also included a 9mm zytel mag loaded with it lol…. Thanks for sharing!!

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

Do you mean marked as in a SWD roll mark on the side of the frame or stamped under the grip?

Side of the frame like the one that was just posted.

 

[fishtix]

Cool! So there were a few of the RPB marked large grip guns! As I figured yours is also marked “SSM11” it seems like basically all of the RPB leftover frames that Wayne used up during the early SWD days were the “SSM11” frames. It might be that they were stowed away in the back of the RPB warehouse when the atf decided they couldn’t sell them, they probably all had the plate welded over the magwell so they just got put off to the side. When Wayne obtained them at the 82 auction he must have removed the plates and built them into SMGs. I think all of the earliest examples of the SWD 380 SMG were built using up these leftover RPB SS frames, including the large grip guns.

I kind of wonder if mine might have been a pistol that they converted after the fact. I only reason I think that is because the selector hole appears to have been somewhat drilled a little carelessly after parked and it has no selector markings or selector stops on it. Who knows though I guess. There is another member here who has a serial number that's less than nine off of mine. When I bought it some years back, it had an evidence tag on it. But looked like it had never been fired.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I kind of wonder if mine might have been a pistol that they converted after the fact. I only reason I think that is because the selector hole appears to have been somewhat drilled a little carelessly after parked and it has no selector markings or selector stops on it. Who knows though I guess. There is another member here who has a serial number that's less than nine off of mine. When I bought it some years back, it had an evidence tag on it. But looked like it had never been fired.

The RPB M11 guns didn’t always have selector stops, but they did have the markings… that said, they did sell a handful of M10 and M11 SMGs that were originally open bolt semi pistol frames in the early 80s, converted to SMG, they pop up for sale from time to time, they still usually have the SAP prefix on the serial number and the S prefix in front of the model name.. I believe these were done by SWD. The briefcase gun here is an M10SAP RPB pistol that was converted, the stock appears to be one of the very rare SWD made M10 stocks that has the extra armpit loop like an M11/9 stock and it’s a single locking unit like the SWD M11/9 stock as well. I bet that gun says SWD ATL GA under the grip.