SWD M-11a1 receiver mag opening

Tovact

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I'm planning to do a semi-auto .380 m11 build at the moment; the receiver flats being currently sold don't have the magazine opening marked out, and I had hoped to use the new metal zytel style magzines with it. Are the .380 and 9mm openings the same size, and does it sit at the same length back from the receiver end as the one on the m11/9?
Thanks for the help.
1000005856.jpg
 

strobro32

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The plans are for the Zeytel and Z mags. The more reliable, metal, small 380 mags does not use that shape or length hole.
 

Tovact

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The plans are for the Zeytel and Z mags. The more reliable, metal, small 380 mags does not use that shape or length hole
As I had understood, the later pattern .380 SWD M-11a1 used zytel/z mags (example in the attached image); I meant to ask about the positioning of the zytel style magwell on a standard size M11 receiver due to the difference in profile.1000005858.jpg
 

strobro32

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The hole on the plans are the same size for 380 and 9mm mags, although the 380 zytels were heat formed different at the feed lips. The ZMags don't seem to work as well for the 380. I much prefer the small metal mags for 380. The hole for those is smaller on the plans. New production small metal 380 mags are being sold by FTF, or at least were. They say OOS now.
 
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Tovact

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The hole on the plans are the same size for 380 and 9mm mags, although the 380 zytels were heat formed different at the feed lips. The ZMags don't seem to work as well for the 380. I much prefer the small metal mags for 380. The hole for those is smaller on the plans. New production small metal 380 mags are being sold by FTF.
Thanks for clearing that up, I appreciate the help.
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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If you are building a 380 gun, go with the small dedicated M11A1 .380 magwell, the original M11 380 design, not the “large grip” SWD 9mm size magwell. The larger magwell (the one on that 11/9 blueprint) is the same for the M10/9, M11/9 and the SWD “large grip” M11A1 .380 (zytels). The availability of the original modified Zytel 380 mags (marked 380 on the spine) is very scarce, they are basically collectibles at this point. They were just normal 9mm zytels that were heated and squeezed shut slightly at the feedlips to prevent the 380 rounds from popping out like they do with the normal 9mm zytel mags. The only alternative now is installing steel feedlip inserts to use 380 with the standard 9mm zytels, which is easy but can be tedious every time you get a new magazine. Like Strobro said, the ZMAGS don’t work as well with 380.

Regardless, the small steel mags work much more reliably and the profile of the gun is much sleeker and smaller with the original 380 small magwell. Can’t comment on the reliability of the FTF small grip 380 steel mags, I’ve had a few of them pass through, some have plastic followers (I think they use steel now) very rough finish on them. The old factory CMP/RPB cobray marked mags work great, they’re always available on gunbroker, but they can be a little on the costly side.
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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As I had understood, the later pattern .380 SWD M-11a1 used zytel/z mags (example in the attached image); I meant to ask about the positioning of the zytel style magwell on a standard size M11 receiver due to the difference in profile.View attachment 43462
Magwell position is the same, the only difference between the M11a1 and the M11/9 is the rear end of the receiver behind the Magwell, the 11/9 is a couple inches longer in the rear. From the Magwell forward both guns are identical.
 

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I don’t recall ever seeing a semi-auto .380 with a large magwell. Only machineguns.
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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I don’t recall ever seeing a semi-auto .380 with a large magwell. Only machineguns.
That is correct. The only 380 semis were the RPB open bolt M11A1 and the SWD closed bolt M12 and both used the small magwell.
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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Wow, that is a first… mind sharing the serial number? As far as I know, SWD did not ever offer the m12 with the large magwell. Very interesting. I’d love to get a closer look but that image hosting website is filled with spammy popups and porn Ads that trigger those “YOUR PHONE IS INFECTED” prompts and freeze up the browser immediately when the page opens etc. so I can’t get a good look at it. That gun is an extreme anomaly. Do we know its factory? Did you purchase it new? The lighter gray extremely smoothly blasted parkerizing looks like it could be a refinish, almost looks like Sam’s work? That’s the smoothest looking parkerized finish I’ve ever seen on an SWD m12, very nicely done, they tend to be a bit rough. I’m very intrigued

Edit: here’s the pic uploaded a little larger so no one has to click the link

IMG_7069.jpeg
 
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Offmarksman

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I got it a long time ago. It looks just like it did, other than the rubber piece on the trigger was rotten and falling off, so I put the new rubber piece on it. I will pm you the last three
Digits of the serial number.

On a side note, what do you guys use to post images?
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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I got it a long time ago. It looks just like it did, other than the rubber piece on the trigger was rotten and falling off, so I put the new rubber piece on it. I will pm you the last three
Digits of the serial number.

On a side note, what do you guys use to post images?

Very interesting. I asked another long time big collector and he’s never seen the large grip on an m12 either, so this one is an oddball for sure! If original it is definitely an extremely rare bird and not something that was ever a standard production factory offering as far as I know. I got your message with the SN , it is a somewhat later production SN for these guns so not something that is early or experimental. I can only guess that someone may have swapped it at some point for one reason or another, possibly magazine availability.. if it’s factory its extremely rare.

I’d love to see a photo from the inside to see the magwell cut out, could be an indicator if it was original or upgraded to the lager magwell.

As for the pics.. I resize them use an app called “pic resize” to a size under 1MB (they’re still plenty large resolution) and then just post them using the integrated image posting feature on here, I don’t host them elsewhere.
 
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Offmarksman

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I tried to find pic resize in the App Store, and couldn’t find it?

Here is a pic of the inside of the mag well.

IMG_2640.jpeg
 

Offmarksman

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I’ve only shot this gun a handful of times, and it performed well given this platforms many shortcomings in factory condition. Not sure why I bought it, other than I thought it looked cool at the time. I bought a transferable one as soon as Kansas allowed Machine guns again. Ironically The Governor who signed this bill which reversed Kansas ban on Machine guns dating back to 1933 was none other than Kathleen Sebelius (yes that Kathleen Sebelius, the heath and human services secretary that oversaw the implementation of Obama Care).
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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I’ve only shot this gun a handful of times, and it performed well given this platforms many shortcomings in factory condition. Not sure why I bought it, other than I thought it looked cool at the time. I bought a transferable one as soon as Kansas allowed Machine guns again. Ironically The Governor who signed this bill which reversed Kansas ban on Machine guns dating back to 1933 was none other than Kathleen Sebelius (yes that Kathleen Sebelius, the heath and human services secretary that oversaw the implementation of Obama Care).

Gotta say, that magwell punch out looks like a factory job, or at least a very professional modification if it was done aftermarket. The serial number prefix 12 indicates that it was made in 92, first year of production, but the earliest examples and prototypes had the smaller magwell. later iterations were marked FMJ, CFT, or LEINAD and all had the smaller magwell also.. so it’s definitely an anomaly for sure. I have a lot of early sales literature for the m12 and it was always advertised as having the smaller magwell for steel mags. It was never advertised with the larger magwell as far as I know, but that doesnt mean it never shipped with one, though that is the only one I’ve ever seen like that.

The app is called “image size” (yes I need to charge my phone)


IMG_7108.png
 

Hey

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I agree it looks factory. I swapped his magwell picture (edited his post) so people wouldn’t be subjected to junk-ads on that site. I used the attach files feature on this site and loaded right off my phone.

IMG_2644.jpeg
 

Offmarksman

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Thanks fellas. I installed the app, and just posted an ad with it.

Pretty excited that my old m12 might be something worth taking up
Space in the safe. I’ve thought about selling it off many times, but something made me hold onto it. If it was modified, someone must have really loved it. These things were pretty cheap back in the day. I don’t think I paid more than $250 for it. It came with a small plastic box and a book. I’ll have to find it and keep it all together. Thanks to you all…
 

MitchWerbellsGhost87

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Thanks fellas. I installed the app, and just posted an ad with it.

Pretty excited that my old m12 might be something worth taking up
Space in the safe. I’ve thought about selling it off many times, but something made me hold onto it. If it was modified, someone must have really loved it. These things were pretty cheap back in the day. I don’t think I paid more than $250 for it. It came with a small plastic box and a book. I’ll have to find it and keep it all together. Thanks to you all…
Don’t sell it.. not yet anyway.. It is currently the only “large grip” M12 ever seen in the wild as far as I know.

I agree, these were (and still basically are) cheap guns, and the likelihood of someone paying a real gunsmith or MAC mechanic like Sam to do such a clean magwell swap are very slim.. my initial reaction was to say it’s NOT factory because I’ve “never” seen that.. but I have learned to never say never with this stuff and it’s very possible that the folks over at SWD were running low on the small
Magwells and decided to complete a handful of these with their plentiful 11/9 magwells… resulting in what you have here. It’s also a nicely finished example too. Cool gun!

Here’s another clue… did it come with a “380” marked zytel magazine? Does that short mag have “380” on the rear of it?
 

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