I don’t think you should feel so bad for forcing the atf to show their hand. They were in the wrong. You stood your ground and I think that was the right thing to do. I wish more people would do that WAY more often. Maybe we wouldn’t be in the predicament we find ourselves now. The revolution was sparked by a 3% tax on tea. My, how far we’ve come.
Tenko Submissions 9mm CB 5.56 OB
- Thread starter A&S Conversions
- Start date
Exactly you didn't push anything, especially the last admin. runned by bunch of rotten worthless commie goons that's all. Never be sorry for being Right. The miserable rot is clearing up and out... 6 months or less from now be celebrating like it's 1999!
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
I did write after the one year anniversary. The acting head of the Firearms and Ammunition Technology Division wrote me back a month ago to say that the determination was assigned to “so and so” who is no longer with the ATF and had not let anyone know that the determination was not done when he left. The acting head says that the determination was reassigned with an “expedite” on it. Of course that doesn’t give me any time frame as to when I might receive the expedited determination. At least I didn’t get a notification that they had lost both M10s. I can also see that there will be hoopla getting the M10s back.
The ATF will no longer use the US Postal Service. They want to use FedEx. I pointed out to the acting head that it is against FedEx policy to ship a firearm to or from a private individual. His response was that they could ship to the SOT of my choice. Of course I have a determination letter from the FATD dated six years ago asking whether I should ship my submission directly, or should I go through an SOT. The determination was that I was to only ship directly. The submission must be from the person or entity who developed it, not anyone else. I guess I’ll have to deal with that after I get my determination.
I would think that if the two M10s go through a SOT, then that would be two NFA transfer fees. So tack on another $200 or $300 in transfer fees above the cost of overnighting a huge box with two complete Tenko adapters with an additional upper. I don’t know what that will cost, but I am guessing the whole thing could cost me $700 to $1,000. It cost me a little over $100 to send the submissions to the FATD through certified mail with insurance. Apparently the US Postal Service doesn’t pick up, only drops off to the ATF.
For that kind of money, I could drive down, pay for hotel rooms and stop in and visit my brother in VA. Who knows, maybe I can get a tour. Feel the love.
Scott
The ATF will no longer use the US Postal Service. They want to use FedEx. I pointed out to the acting head that it is against FedEx policy to ship a firearm to or from a private individual. His response was that they could ship to the SOT of my choice. Of course I have a determination letter from the FATD dated six years ago asking whether I should ship my submission directly, or should I go through an SOT. The determination was that I was to only ship directly. The submission must be from the person or entity who developed it, not anyone else. I guess I’ll have to deal with that after I get my determination.
I would think that if the two M10s go through a SOT, then that would be two NFA transfer fees. So tack on another $200 or $300 in transfer fees above the cost of overnighting a huge box with two complete Tenko adapters with an additional upper. I don’t know what that will cost, but I am guessing the whole thing could cost me $700 to $1,000. It cost me a little over $100 to send the submissions to the FATD through certified mail with insurance. Apparently the US Postal Service doesn’t pick up, only drops off to the ATF.
For that kind of money, I could drive down, pay for hotel rooms and stop in and visit my brother in VA. Who knows, maybe I can get a tour. Feel the love.
Scott
Go pick it up. The money is about the same and you will know that it's not lost or taking a side trip to Oregon or somewhere else like so many packages do these days. And you get to visit your brother.
Just make sure to file the travel form to bring them across state lines.
Just make sure to file the travel form to bring them across state lines.
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
It’s my understanding that a person can act as a common carrier, as long as the box stays sealed. If I do go, I’ll bring a 5320.20 with me, just in case.
It sucks that the only way I could get the submissions to them, is also the least expensive. Yet a government agency won’t use a government agency. And makes the cost five times more expensive.
Scott
ETA, I don’t know if it’s even allowed for me to pick them up. Is the building closed to everyone other than government employees. There is also the issue of firearms in a government building. Do I need to get them to carry the guns out to the parking lot, or so many feet from the building?
It sucks that the only way I could get the submissions to them, is also the least expensive. Yet a government agency won’t use a government agency. And makes the cost five times more expensive.
Scott
ETA, I don’t know if it’s even allowed for me to pick them up. Is the building closed to everyone other than government employees. There is also the issue of firearms in a government building. Do I need to get them to carry the guns out to the parking lot, or so many feet from the building?
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You just have to ask them what their procedure for that is. I'd wait until they are done with the guns to put a sense of time on the question for them.
Being that they are the BATFE I would definitely have the 5320.20 forms in hand, many copies. They might not tell you to have them but when you get there they might demand to see them. Not that they are necessarily trying to screw you over but bureaucracies are big and clumsy as you saw with the guy leaving his job and no one picking up the task.
challenger70rt
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2017
- Messages
- 194
Scott… what are the M10’s in question brand wise? I ask because nearly all the Powder Springs guns at this point are C&R now. A $10 a year, simple to get C&R FFL might let them send them directly to you. Just a thought.
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
Thank you for the thought. One is a TX gun and the other is an RPB .45 gun. So both are 80’s guns. They are registered to our revocable trust so my wife can shoot them but more importantly can have access. So I don’t have to have two different storage.
They have already been transferred. But if a firearm comes to a FFL holder, they must enter it into their bound book. I could even be there when it arrives. But they would still need to enter it into their book.
For me it is a question of cost. The FedEx estimate is $339 to ship overnight. FedEx does not ship firearms to or from an individual. So the package must be shipped to a FFL holder or it violates their terms of service.
The last transfer I had was in 2018. I was charged $150 for the transfer. This would be two machine guns to go on and off his books. So that would be another $300. So over $600 to get my property back from the ATF. They refuse to use the USPS. Why, I don’t know. My guess would be that it is easier for them. The overnight shipping is around three times the cost of Registered Mail. Plus the USPS will ship firearms to individuals. So no fee from the FFL holder. The Government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around.
I did have a manufacturer 07/01 FFL. The plan is to get one again. But I want a separate location from my home. I have a fair amount of money in my firearms collection. I don’t want that address posted on the ATF website. I just can’t afford that overhead right now. Once we have an approved design, then I will need to scrape up the money to start producing. I will have to raid my retirement account. I don’t want to do that. But I don’t want to be beholden to anyone else.
God only knows what the ATF will do. They will not be able to repeat what they did the last time. But since I was not a 07/02, they kept everything from the previous submission. They could use those parts to maybe make the unit fire. With them determining that the last submission was a machine gun, I didn’t have the money to pay the SOT to get the last submission back. I don’t have the funds to move forward until I actually have the determination in my hands. Thank you all for your kind words and support.
Scott Manager
A&S Conversions L.L.C.
They have already been transferred. But if a firearm comes to a FFL holder, they must enter it into their bound book. I could even be there when it arrives. But they would still need to enter it into their book.
For me it is a question of cost. The FedEx estimate is $339 to ship overnight. FedEx does not ship firearms to or from an individual. So the package must be shipped to a FFL holder or it violates their terms of service.
The last transfer I had was in 2018. I was charged $150 for the transfer. This would be two machine guns to go on and off his books. So that would be another $300. So over $600 to get my property back from the ATF. They refuse to use the USPS. Why, I don’t know. My guess would be that it is easier for them. The overnight shipping is around three times the cost of Registered Mail. Plus the USPS will ship firearms to individuals. So no fee from the FFL holder. The Government is supposed to work for us, not the other way around.
I did have a manufacturer 07/01 FFL. The plan is to get one again. But I want a separate location from my home. I have a fair amount of money in my firearms collection. I don’t want that address posted on the ATF website. I just can’t afford that overhead right now. Once we have an approved design, then I will need to scrape up the money to start producing. I will have to raid my retirement account. I don’t want to do that. But I don’t want to be beholden to anyone else.
God only knows what the ATF will do. They will not be able to repeat what they did the last time. But since I was not a 07/02, they kept everything from the previous submission. They could use those parts to maybe make the unit fire. With them determining that the last submission was a machine gun, I didn’t have the money to pay the SOT to get the last submission back. I don’t have the funds to move forward until I actually have the determination in my hands. Thank you all for your kind words and support.
Scott Manager
A&S Conversions L.L.C.
Are you sure you need to do a full transfer? When I sent a gun off to be worked on, the smith entered the gun in his books as being in for repair. When he was done, he shipped it back to my FFL, where I picked it up without completing any forms or paying any fees. I never completed any form 3 or form 4 for the entire repair process.
LotsaTiques
UZI Talk Supporter
Scott, I just noticed you're in southern New Hampshire.
I'm an 07FFL/SOT on the Cape and I have a good friend in southern New Hampshire who is also an 07FFL/SOT. When it comes time to getting your stuff back I'll donate my services at no charge and speak with my friend and see if he'll jump in as well. Between us we'll save you $$.
Message me at your convenience and I'll give you my contact info.
David
I'm an 07FFL/SOT on the Cape and I have a good friend in southern New Hampshire who is also an 07FFL/SOT. When it comes time to getting your stuff back I'll donate my services at no charge and speak with my friend and see if he'll jump in as well. Between us we'll save you $$.
Message me at your convenience and I'll give you my contact info.
David
A&S Conversions
UZI Talk Life Member
This would not be a “transfer” like when you first get the paperwork to reflect that you are the new owner according to the NFA registry. But most dealers are “in the business” to make a profit. Your guy put your gun on his book. Then he shipped it away for service. His book would need to show to whoever he shipped it to. If not, if the ATF inspected his premises, the gun would need to be there or be able to confirm that another SOT has possession. Whoever received your gun for service would also need to enter when they received it and log it out back to your dealer.
Most dealers in my area charge $50 for Title I and As much as $150 for Title II transfers. The fee that a dealer charges is separate from the transfer of ownership that goes through the NFA Branch.
In 2018 I bought two M10s to have a sample size of more than just one gun. Most of my machine guns I bought from someone in the state where I lived. But one of the two guns was from out of state. I went back to the dealer I had before leaving New Hampshire in 2007. He had not seen me in over 10 years. They transferred in the gun. To transfer to me they asked for $150 for the transfer. What I am familiar with is whether they have the gun for a year or an hour, the transfer fee is the transfer fee.
David, I would very much appreciate any help to get my guns back when the time comes. PM sent.
You are right, I do love being a part of this community.
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