The latest NIB M16A2 Carbine - look it over

TommyGun

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As someone mentioned in another thread that Frank emails that include Pre-Auction pricing lower than the "Buy it Now" this one as @ $32,000 and it looks like someone may have taken him up since the auction has now ended.
 

nuge

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Yeah looks like a colt SMG, ss pins, 2 piece block, A1 forging - definitely not an A2 carbine. Pics are grossly lacking in detail...
 

Abacab

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There is a Colt M16 LMG marked gun for sale on subguns. I wonder if these are coming out of Vahan's/Autoweapons collection since he is now prohibited.
 
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nuge

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There is a Colt M16 LMG marked gun for sale on subguns. Is wonder if these are coming out of Vahan's/Autoweapons collection since he is now prohibited.

Almost jumped on this until I saw the A1 forging.. Also IIRC the LMG marked units were the closed bolt versions but need to check.
 

nuge

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Then again Safe/Fire is consistent with open bolt, hmmm..
 

Abacab

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Yeah I thought it was an open bolt gun with the markings.
 

hkg3k

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The lower is properly marked for an open bolt LMG.

This photo confirms the LMG does have open bolt fire control parts installed.....the 2-piece (spring loaded) auto sear and notched hammer are the giveaway. By the appearance of the buffer face......it looks to be a hydraulic unit. And, the bolt hold open is a correct open bolt piece.

nfafirearms.26942.10.jpg


It's also curious to me the lower is A1 spec and doesn't have the A2 reinforcements.
 
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nuge

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The lower is properly marked for an open bolt LMG.

This photo confirms the LMG does have open bolt fire control parts installed.....the 2-piece (spring loaded) auto sear and notched hammer are the giveaway. By the appearance of the buffer face......it looks to be a hydraulic unit. And, the bolt hold open is a correct open bolt piece.

nfafirearms.26942.10.jpg


It's also curious to me the lower is A1 spec and doesn't have the A2 reinforcements.
hkg3k - I see that now. The pics from Targetmaster are excellent. Looks all good except for the A1 lower, but even with that is still tempting...
 

nuge

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Sorry OP, you can call me Jack ;)...

But the LMG is compelling to me. Here's one from autoweapons that is a closed bolt experimental version - marked LMG like the one from targetmaster, but A2 lower. Trying to remember if there were any pics in The Black Rifle II, chapter 9 of LMGs marked as such with A1 lower and open bolt (my copy is in transit with movers).

LMG%252520engraved%252520A2%252520experimental.jpg


As much as I'd like to own the real deal LMG, here's my back up plan - just need to assemble it.

Colt%252520LMG%252520Back%252520Up%252520for%252520post.jpg
 

USSarizona

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Hahaha, whoever springs for one of those is a wishful thinker.

I believe it has now been acknowledged from a long time Colt source that these are not original Colt factory manufactures; in fact a former Colt employee, who is associated with Vahan Kelerchian stamped these "remanufactures" out during the wee hours of the evening. You can research Vahan Kelerchian on your own time; he, his illegal activities pertaining to machineguns and his consequent conviction have been mentioned on this forum previously.

Despite the obvious red flags, should one still be curious about purchasing, you should probably demand to see the forms these are on to confirm if the paperwork even reflects the model numbers some of these guns have engraved on them.

Next thing you know, it'll be NIB transferable original manufacture Colt 6940 series guns...
 
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ScottinTexas

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As an observation, the last half dozen or so of the 'incredibly rare' guns that I have seen have all been rollmarked Colt Firearms Division.

What caught my eye is that on each one, the word Division is more deeply stamped than the other words. It does not match the other two words.

I find that very peculiar, and it also suggests to me they were all rollmarked at the same time.

Just my personal opinion.

But how amazing for all these rare guns to be made in the days leading up to the ban, then stored away for sale 30 years later.
 

Battering ram NIB

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someone has pallets of these things...it is just endless....2-4 a month new odd M16's...all NIB keep coming...ive been keeping track of the serial #'s on the a2 govt's and am up to 12 in less than 8 months when a few years ago people reported 12 or less exist.....so obviously there must be 100 of them or more...maybe 100 more on the pallet......i agree some of them dont make sense.....im a true believer in the a2 govt marked ones....they all look right, all have the same serial# range.........so not all are possible fakes

whas has it done to the market? every other FA has gone up 10-20% recently...M16's? down.....eventually these will dry up and the market will go back up..

maybe some day when someone writes a m16 book this will be a chapter.....they will discover who's collection it was and how vast it was....someone with 500 brand new M16's...all different variants
 

ScottinTexas

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And then again the Feds may just come in and confiscate every one of them if they were born too late to be legit.

If so, the last owners will be left out in this game of musical chairs. Kiss your investment good bye.
 

secondofangle

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Cat in the bag

Yes felon Vahan is relative of Colt employee

Yes Oly remanufactured receivers for customers with the original SN circa 2003 than ATF put a stop to it.

Yes, guns with model designations that did not exist in 1986 have been selling from the Colt employee collection for going on two years now. there are said to be hundreds of guns in that collection

Yes, some of the guns have A2 receivers marked with COLTS MFG CO INC, a designation that did not exist until 1989

Yes some other guns are marked with the 1986 specific COLTS FIREARMS DIVISION , but on post 2000 receivers with A4 reinforcements.

Yes this most recent post has ABSURD rollmarks like M4 enhanced.

hqving almost been a sucker for some of Spiwaks offerings back in December, I learned the above facts. Nuance and inference from communication with several of the dealers has led me to the following speculation

Employee did 2-3 or more runs remanufacturing guns with old registered SNs either bc the old registered receivers were damaged or bc he wanted cool rollmarks.

On the run he did circa 1994, he grabbed A2 receivers but forgot to change the manufacturer designation on the rollstamp machine. What a knucklehead. On the run(s) he did circa 2008 +\- 2011 there were no A2 forgings to be found at the Colt plant. which is why you see A4 forgings. by then he got the manufacturer markings problem fixed.

This explains pretty much every anomaly you see. But how to know if, circa 1998, he didnt recognize his gaffe with the manufacturer markings and so a proper run on A2 receivers?

I mantain that he did the community a great disservice. Only beneficiaries are his heirs and the dealers, many of which are playing dumb which is a whole other issue we could talk about.
 

secondofangle

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title insurance

one way to look at it. buy a house and the lender requires title insurance in case it is ever discovered that there is a dispute iver he legitimacy of rhe property or title, surveyor boundaries leins etc.

If I could get title insurance on it id buy that m4 carbine in a heartbeat.

but alas there is no such thing. so, too risky for me.
 
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