Thinking about a Norinco UZI project...

[Quarterbore]

I keep seeing these cheap Norinco UZIs like this one...

http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/semi4sale.cgi?read=74044

For under $500 and I have seen the reviews....

http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2677&highlight=Norinco

and

http://files.uzitalk.com/reference/pages/norinco.htm

What I am most tempted to do is to buy a Norinco UZI and register it as a SBR. With SBR status, I would be able to remove the funky stock and replace it with a normal detachable stock. In addition, the welds could be cut and the barrel could be replaced with a more traditional length UZI barrel.

Now, given that the UZI would be registered on a Form 4 as a SBR, the 922(r) regulations would not apply so the UZI would not need to have the necessary UZ Parts count which is another advantage.

Now, my only reason for concern is that I am also in the process of receiving a Full Auto Full Sized Vector UZI and I am a firm believer in having spare parts. I am curious if anyone can advise about the legal issues associated with haveing spare full-auto UZI parts and a semi-auto UZI?

I know the Semi-Auto UZI uses blocks that prevent the use of a normal full auto "Open-Bolt" in them. Would this be enough to keep me out of trouble? By "Spare Parts" for my full-auto Vector, I mean to indicate that I have two complete IMI UZI Parts kits less a few chunks of the de-milled receiver....

I think a SBR UZI would be a fun addition to my collection and the Norinco UZI seems to be a weapon that can be refined and refinished at a price that is afordable. Then agan, I already have too many projects so perhaps I just want you guys to shoot it down for me so I can start one of my other pending projects (Homebuilt AKM, semi 1919a4, Imbel FAL, semiauto Sten, 80% AR-15 lower)

Thanks!
QB

 

[Quarterbore]

After posting above, I was still thinking and I am curious where the Norenco serial number is engraved....

If I were to go as far as I describe above, I wonder if it would be possible to also cut down the Receiver and turn it into a mini or micro UZI?

I know it is possible to remark a serial number but I also know it requires ATF paperwork plus I don't have the slighest idea what would be involved with converting a fill sized UZI to one of the smaller versions. Still, it would be an interesting project to try and it's not like $500 is a whole lot of money...

Any oppinions in miniturizing the Full Sized UZI on top of what I suggested in the post above?

 

[AliYahu]

SBRs are subject to AWB regulations!!! The R is for Rifle! Check here for further reference.

A

 

[davidl]

full sized, mini, and micro(pistol), look "alike" ,but are totaly differant. it's more than length.like she said

 

[Quarterbore]

SBRs are subject to AWB regulations!!! The R is for Rifle! Check here for further reference.A

I don't know why you posted this?

AWB rules are seperate than SBR rules... A full sized post ban UZI can still be SBRed, as can any post-ban, and there is nothing in the crime bill that prevents the use of a detachable stock. Yes, I can not use a folder, and I can not have a bayonet lug, and the barrel can not be threaded BUT otherwise what I describe would be completely legal...

As for the Mini and Micro UZI, kind of figures that wouldn't work but it was worth a shot. WHat I thought about doing is cutting down the 320 to one of these sizes and using it as a pistol after SBRing it. Oh yea, a rifle with a short barrel and no stock is a SBR... not a pistol... and yes it would be affected by the crime bill as a RIFLE as, like posted above, it is a RIFLE even though it may look like a PISTOL!

As an aside, I just got an E-mail tonight that Sam Alvarez has a 1919a4 sideplate for me so I think I will just focus on my 1919a4 project and forgo this project for now but perhaps in the future? Perhaps by the time I get back to this the crime bill will die and I will have the new Vector to keep me entertained?

 

[RoverDave]

and there is nothing in the crime bill that prevents the use of a detachable stock.

The AWB prohibits quick detach stocks as well as folders.

 

[lovethatvector]

Are you sure the awb prohibits "quick detach stocks"? I could have sworn it was folding or collapsible stocks, but no mention of quick detach, in fact at some recent gunshows I've seen dealers selling new post-ban ar's with a new quick detach stock allowing the stock to remove with the push of a button just leaving the buffer tube.


Anyone knows what the deal is with this?

Mike

 

[jt325i]

Since the Norinco is a post '89 ban gun, you would still need US parts. 922 & SBR are two totally different sets of rules. NFA transferrable machine guns do not need 922 parts because they ceased production in 1986. The import parts regulations didn't show up until November 1989. You can still SBR one of these rifles but it must comply with both 922 & the AWB.

 

[stymie]

Carbon-15s are post-ban & have Q.D. stocks...

lovethatvector...

Of course, they were never intended to be shot that way!


You just flip a lever & pull it off... leaving the recoil tube behind.

Funny thing... in a comparison between the A-2 flash hider & the C-15 muzzle break... the C-15 was as effective as the birdcage in reducing flash!

Go figure!!!

 

[stymie]

LOL...

getting kinda punchy....
It's a freakin' BRAKE.... not break!

 

[Dan0341]

With reference to my ATF letter below, quick detach stocks were not included as part of the '94 Assault Weapons Ban (Section 922(v)(1)). This ban refers to "folding" and "telescoping" stocks only. If you buy an 18" barrel from Quality Parts/Bushmaster (they used to carry them - not sure about now?), you should be able to have a quick detachable stock on your Norinco (as long as the US Parts requirement is met). But, call Bushmaster first to see if the 18" inch barrel will bring the overall length to at least 26 inches without a stock in place. I'm fairly certain it will, but I've never tried it so I can't say for sure.

Dan

 

[Quarterbore]

Sorry guys I have been busy but I agree with the advise that as long as your overall length is great enough you can have a detachable stock on a non-NFA weapon. There is one of the major AR-15 manufacturers that is making a detachable stock AR-15 rifle at this time but darned if I can recall who it is...

Secondly, if you SBR a weapon, even a post-ban, you DO NOT NEED a stock which was the point of the thread. Therefore, with a SBR, the detachable stock would also be legal as it is a SBR because of it's absence and the addition of the stock ,akes it just a little longer SBR! When I file my Form 1, I would just need to make sure that I list the overall length of the UZI as being the length of the UZI with the shortest barrel with no stock.

Now, let me repeat what I posted before, the 922(r) regulations DO NOT APPLY TO NFA WEAPONS.... Please see this link for clarification as I guess some don't trust me...

http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter3.txt

So, I repeat again, I can have a 100% imported UZI SBRed and remove the junk stock and funky welded barrel and then restore the weapon to the detachable stock, use an UZI SMG barrel. It just requires the use of the $200 tax stamp and approved Form 1...

 

[Dan0341]

Doesn't an AOW have to have a second pistol grip?

Dan

 

[Dan0341]

Here's some info from Vectorarms.com regarding their AOW (see website for pic of AOW):

Any Other Weapon (AOW)
IMI receiver gun or Vector heat treated AOW - semi auto. ($5 tax stamp required), no stock allowed, foregrip allowed, short BBL allowed, suppressor allowed, cal. 22, 9mm, .45 (includes foregrip).

I'm assuming that this forward pistol grip cannot be removed legally since it is registered as an AOW. Is this correct?

Dan

 

[Quarterbore]

I'm assuming that this forward pistol grip cannot be removed legally since it is registered as an AOW. Is this correct?
Dan

Click for a stupidly huge pic: http://www.vectorarms.com/photos/AOW.gif

The common logic and argument is that YES you can not remove the forward grip. Just the same, I have never seen anybody write the ATF to see their OPPINION of the law much less a court case that shows how the courts would enforce the law. I point this out for the weapon is registered as a AOW. Once it is on the National Firearms Registry, it will remain an NFA AOW weapon until you write them to ask that it be removed. If you remove the forward grip, this weapon is STILL an AOW in the eye of the law.. RIGHT?

If you were to remove the forward grip, you may be making an illegal SBR or at least this is one way that I could see the law going! Also, depending on how you have it configured, the illegal SBR could also violate the crime bill...

AOW laws are so darned confusing that I sure would recommend just leaving the forward grip on the weapon just to be safe. Manufacturers are required to put this forward grip on in a way that it is not removable so unless you are going to do some cutting it's not like this is an easy move to remove it anyways!

Regardless, as I suggested, I would just leave the forward grip in place and FWIW I have shot an AR-15 AOW and this is a pretty cool little toy but not very practical.