Thoughts on standardizing on nickel plated brass for my 9mm reloads

[amphibian]

I've been reloading 9mm for over 30yrs. I'm a cheap ass like a lot of reloaders. I've used range pick up brass since I first started loading. I don't think I have ever bought new unloaded brass before. I think I have probably loaded some of the same pieces of brass over a dozen times as I use a brass catcher unless I am in a SMG match.
My 13 yr old son is now joining me going shooting and doing matches. I don't care if I get some hiccups as I'm used to it but now I want to make sure he has the best experience. So I am thinking about switching to nickel plated brass for these reasons:

1. I have broken many decapping pins over the years running into berdan cases. I can't recall ever seeing nickel plated berdan primed 9mm cases
2. I don't think I've ever seen military crimped 9mm nickel brass before so priming should be smooth
3. Once I see the nickel starting to wear off, maybe that is a good indicator to put it in my don't pick up stash or just stop using it
4. Easy to identify if using nickel.
5. It may be easier to see cracks or deformation of nickel vs brass cases.
6. Some brass has tight flash holes and I don't think I've noticed that with any self defense 9mm nickel cases.
7. Nickel has a higher lubricity than brass so that is a nice plus but I know that is very debatable
8. It seems to clean up very fast in a dry tumbler since it is so slick not much sticks to it as easily as bare brass.

Downsides are that I've read that nickel may damage your dies since it is harder and will flake off but I've always loaded them like anything else with no issues but I've never tried to do 100% nickel like this in volume. Some say nickel is more brittle for higher pressure but I'm just talking 9mm subsonic loads here. Also heard nickel cases lose case neck tension faster but I have no first hand experience with high repetitive use of nickel brass to know.

Anyone have anything to add in regards to pro's / con's for me to think about?

 

[KickStand]

I’ve got a lot of once fired brass (mostly fired from Sig’s, Glock’s and STI’s).
I’ll gladly give you some for your son. I could give him 3 gallons or so of 9MM. If you need more, I could probably swing it too.

I know you’re in Florida but I don’t know how far you’re from me (south Marion County).

 

[amphibian]

I’ve got a lot of once fired brass (mostly fired from Sig’s, Glock’s and STI’s).
I’ll gladly give you some for your son. I could give him 3 gallons or so of 9MM. If you need more, I could probably swing it too.

I know you’re in Florida but I don’t know how far you’re from me (south Marion County).

Thanks for the kind offer! Sent you a PM.

 

[brenbuilds]

Ni plated brass is great and certainly easier clean due to it's smoothness and " self lubricating" like properties.

The case itself is thinner to accommodate the plating, so longevity tends to decrease. Additionally, they tend to be more brittle as you mentioned.

The biggest nuisance is the lack of prevalence compared to brass casings. For your application I think it will be fine.

 

[Slowmo]

I can see you’ve put a lot of thought into it, but none of those reasons really warrant the hassle to me, even considered in combination. Also not worth it to sort nickel from brass to me.

Regarding the first point, there is zinc-plated steel brass that is easy to confuse for nickel-plated brass. Not sure whether it is boxer or Berdan though.

 

[cvasqu03]

It sounds like a lot of added expense for not much benefit, but I do think there will be some benefit so if you don't mind, I'd be interested in hearing how it works out for you. I do love that you never did this for yourself, but are totally willing to do it just to enhance your son's enjoyment. Father of the year stuff.

 

[amphibian]

Kind of a side note but some of you guys may remember the 9mm 147Gr 'Special K' ammo. They initially were loaded with nickel cases but I'm not clear if he used new or once fired brass. I have 1/2 a box and all of them are Federal and one WIN brass. Kind of a moot point since he was commercially loading Nickel and probably not re-using the brass. The creator of this ammo posted his recipe last year on AR15.com: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/Special-K-setting-the-record-straight/20-210517/
I took a picture of one of the rounds in my stash to document his COL for my reference and posted below.

As mentioned in that thread many thought the Special K was the same as Dr Dater's load and it isn't the same.

Dater's preferred load was 3.6 Gr VV N320 with a 147Gr bullet.

 

[Slowmo]

Kind of a side note but some of you guys may remember the 9mm 147Gr 'Special K' ammo. They initially were loaded with nickel cases but I'm not clear if he used new or once fired brass. I have 1/2 a box and all of them are Federal and one WIN brass. Kind of a moot point since he was commercially loading Nickel and probably not re-using the brass. The creator of this ammo posted his recipe last year on AR15.com: https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/Special-K-setting-the-record-straight/20-210517/
I took a picture of one of the rounds in my stash to document his COL for my reference and posted below.

As mentioned in that thread many thought the Special K was the same as Dr Dater's load and it isn't the same.

Dater's preferred load was 3.6 Gr VV N320 with a 147Gr bullet.

It’s interesting to note that the Special K load is roughly a starting load of N340, while Dater’s is roughly a max load of N320.

I’ve thought about using N330 to split the difference in burn rate a bit. The charge weight and velocity differences between N330 and N340 are almost negligible in 9mm, so I’m not sure what advantage there is in going with relatively slow N340.

 

[cvasqu03]

Sorry, but what was special about this ammo?

 

[Slowmo]

I don’t know what is necessarily “special” about it other than it being called “Special K,” but it was sold in large volume at Knob Creek and other places and had a good reputation, particularly for suppressed use.

I don’t entirely know the timeline, but I suspect some of its positive reputation had to do with being available round-nose subsonic ammunition when not much was available from the factory. Even today most 147gr 9mm is flat-nose, which many SMGs will not reliably run, and in some instances, flat-nose rounds can purportedly damage guns, like bending ejector rods in MACs.

 

[amphibian]

Sorry, but what was special about this ammo?

He says in the thread I linked above: "At the time, I had a Class III business called "Custom K", hence the naming of the ammo"

 

[chili17]

Only thing I have noticed about nickeled cases is that it seems to split sooner, but since I dont really keep track of how many times my pistol brass is fired, maybe they don't

 

[Deerhurst]

I don’t know what is necessarily “special” about it other than it being called “Special K,” but it was sold in large volume at Knob Creek and other places and had a good reputation, particularly for suppressed use.

I don’t entirely know the timeline, but I suspect some of its positive reputation had to do with being available round-nose subsonic ammunition when not much was available from the factory. Even today most 147gr 9mm is flat-nose, which many SMGs will not reliably run, and in some instances, flat-nose rounds can purportedly damage guns, like bending ejector rods in MACs.

How does a flat nose bullet on the front of the cartridge affect the ejector rod that strikes the back of the brass when the bolt is fully open?

 

[Slowmo]

How does a flat nose bullet on the front of the cartridge affect the ejector rod that strikes the back of the brass when the bolt is fully open?

Truthfully, I’ve never understood that and doubted it was a real phenomenon, but I’ve read a few instances where people claimed to have bent their ejector rod from running FN ammo. I think it purportedly has something to do with what happens when it jams.

Edit to add:

Looks like in the link below, someone had a similar comment about hollowpoints and explained what was happening to them when you asked how hollowpoints were bending the ejector.

https://www.uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/m11-9-upgrade-spare-parts.99114/#post-869421

 

[cvasqu03]

Actually, now that you guys pointed it out, the fact that it's 147gr round nose does make it special (though it turns out it was just a clever brand name). All the subsonic I've ever found was flat nose, and though I don't think it's ever caused a problem, it's always left me wondering.

As for the nickel cases splitting --- maybe? My biggest concern would be wearing out the resizing dies.

 

[amphibian]

Actually, now that you guys pointed it out, the fact that it's 147gr round nose does make it special (though it turns out it was just a clever brand name). All the subsonic I've ever found was flat nose, and though I don't think it's ever caused a problem, it's always left me wondering.

As for the nickel cases splitting --- maybe? My biggest concern would be wearing out the resizing dies.

I see PMC and Fiocchi instock which are both RN here: https://www.targetsportsusa.com/9mm-luger-ammo-c-51.aspx#Ge63|
No experience with either though. I have run 158Gr Fiocchi in the past and found it to be pretty weak loaded which used to be RN but now looks like their 158 is FN: https://www.targetsportsusa.com/fio...-ammo-158-grain-subsonic-fmj-9ape-p-3385.aspx

I got some of these 155Gr projectiles: https://americanreloading.com/product/9mm-155gr-fmj-blems-500ct/ They look awesome and don't see any blemishes. Great price.

I am tempted to buy some of these 158Gr for even cheaper: $38.49 for 500. https://americanreloading.com/product/38-357-158gr-rn-fmj-blems-500ct/ Link says, (.355 - .356). If that is correct, should work fine for 9mm SMG's....but I'm leary of it having a fat ogive like the RMR bullets have. Nothing a reamer won't fix which I've done on some barrels but really trying to stick to loading the same rounds for all my 9mm guns and not have to ream all my barrels for longer leades to accommodate fat ogives.

Regarding wearing dies, I've been using the same Dillon carbide sizing die and carbide Lee FCD for probably 20+ years now with God knows how many rounds. If I wear them out now running Nickel cases, I don't care as they have paid for themselves several times a long time ago.

Regarding FN, I posted this before:

Now on my full size UZI's, my IMI barrels run the same FN bullets just fine.
Both my full size and my Mini have the sold semi feed ramps for better feeding.

With my hybrid full auto Dissent I have been playing with, I have 5 different feeding options.

Out of all the configurations above, the only one that feeds the FN bullets reliably are the new 40 Round MEAN Exomags. Neither the Glock or curved Scorpion mags feed them reliably. Could be my COL or whatever but I got the projectiles cheap and just burning through them. Will most likely stick with RN when I've shot them all but it is kinda fun going through different permutations to figure out what works which most likely run JHP the best if FN isn't a problem.

Video of it below

 

[cvasqu03]

Thanks for the links. I've been gearing up to do a massive reloading session before the end of the year and may try some of those 155gr projectiles.

 

[Deerhurst]

Truthfully, I’ve never understood that and doubted it was a real phenomenon, but I’ve read a few instances where people claimed to have bent their ejector rod from running FN ammo. I think it purportedly has something to do with what happens when it jams.

Edit to add:

Looks like in the link below, someone had a similar comment about hollowpoints and explained what was happening to them when you asked how hollowpoints were bending the ejector.

https://www.uzitalk.com/forums/index.php?threads/m11-9-upgrade-spare-parts.99114/#post-869421

The explanation in that thread still makes no sense. By the time the fresh round is stripped from the magazine the ejector is covered and the ejector does not move with the bolt and will not contact a fresh round in any way. It is exposed when the bolt opens fully and that is all.

I'm suspecting other issues being blamed on a bullet shape. I'll have to find some flat nose to run. I doubt I'll have issues. Never have in things that everyone said would.

 

[Slowmo]

The explanation in that thread still makes no sense. By the time the fresh round is stripped from the magazine the ejector is covered and the ejector does not move with the bolt and will not contact a fresh round in any way. It is exposed when the bolt opens fully and that is all.

I'm suspecting other issues being blamed on a bullet shape. I'll have to find some flat nose to run. I doubt I'll have issues. Never have in things that everyone said would.

If you do some testing, let us know how it goes. I reload nearly everything I shoot, so I haven’t seen a reason to try it with RN bullets readily available.

I have a couple open bolts I might check to see if HPs will run in them though. Just haven’t gotten around to it.

 

[atfsux]

If I keep my eyes open for it, I will eventually see someone offering nickel 9mm for the same price as brass. I rarely buy my brass, as I have been a brass scrounging sumbich since I was 15. But when I occasionally decide to sit down and load several thousand of something at a time, I'll check my stockpile and determine if I need to buy some.

Yes, I also enjoy that nickel doesn't require very much tumbling at all, which saves time. And the nickel doesn't blend in with the yellow grass out here in the desert like brass does, so it is easier to spot and retrieve. The concern about nickel wearing out dies prematurely MIGHT have been a valid concern back before carbide dies, but not now. When I was starting out reloading .38spl & .357 in the 80's with steel dies and lube, 90% of the brass was nickel-plated. I observed no discernible issues, even when I used brass that was already flaking (because I have always been a cheapskate).