Thoughts on super safe Mac System?

[A&S Conversions]

I dunno. The last Subgun match I shot we had guys running super safe in 9mm carbines. Kept up with us MG folks. One of them wasn't real reliable but still did better than the MP5s that were there.

The SS guys were pretty competitive. Was pretty cool to see! They did have a higher ROF than my Max31 for sure.

I don’t know but most national matches don’t allow switching the selector. Full auto only. A forced reset trigger is a semi auto that can mimic full auto fire. To me a FRT would be a huge advantage compared to a shooter of a machine gun that is required to be in AUTO only.

I stand corrected. My question is, how long do you suppose it will be that someone does something horrific with such a FRT device? On another thread on this site, I don’t know where, someone posted that something over a dozen states have already passed laws got allowing fast firing devices. I don’t know if that is true but just like the SlideFire device, FL has outlawed such devices.

Is the concept cool? Sure, but realistically, how long will these be available? I don’t know, but like the Pre Samples that became transferable, would these guns effect transferable pricing? The Pre Samples didn’t. I think that the only effect that devices like the forced reset triggers will have on transferable market value will be for the increase of transferable market value will tend to slow. I heard this same wishful thinking when the SlidFire made it big. Of course the big transferables tend to be owned by people who are well off. Like Florida, maybe there would be legislation that effect fast firing devices nationally. With the kind of money that is in the market value of transferable machine guns, those people might have some pull. A lot of that will have to do with who is controlling Congress. YMMV.

Scott

 

[strobro32]

I would respectfully ask anyone who thinks that a Super Safety is a "gimmick" trigger to try one. It shocks me when MG owners, firearm snobs, especially gun club owners, gun club management, event organizers, 2A enthusiast and dealers diminish the brilliance of mechanical parts that function as designed. What makes them brilliant? They function outside the definition of tyrannical litigious limitations.

The SS has nothing in common with the Slidefire, Binary, Hellfire, Crankfire or the RB FRT-15 FCG. They are flawed machines that require skill to function. Once tuned, a steel SS is a reliable set of parts that increases the ROF legally. The SS functions mechanically, out side of the legal definition of a machine gun. That is its true genius. Tim Hoffman should get Best Firearm Innovator of the last 40 years.

Machine guns are legal. They are a tool as moral, as dangerous and as responsible as their user. Government regulation has limited machine guns economically for new users and consumers. For the first time in 39 years, an invention has economically empowered new users. Firearm supporters should educate themselves on the SS before discouraging them. We need to support this kind of true innovation within firearm design industry.

For those 2A protectors, who fear the SS because a crazy person might do harm, congratulations! You're officially a Fudd or an irrationally fearful liberal. You're on the wrong side of liberty.

Get educated.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

Very well stated Strobo.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Okay, by your definition, I am a Fudd. Is the Super Safety innovative? Sure, it is. It seems to me that all of the restrictive firearm regulations that I can think of, from the NFA of ‘34, to the GCA of’68, on and on, all come from tragedies. The NFA community is so very lucky that the Las Vegas shooter used a SlideFire. It is my understanding that the Las Vegas shooter had the means to buy transferable machine guns. What could that have done? Congress hasn’t done anything…yet. But we might very well be one tragedy away from losing full auto fire. It is my understanding that the Supreme Court has indicated that they don’t feel that machine guns are not covered under the Second Amendment.

I feel so very fortunate that I own machine guns. I so very much love the fun that I have had with my machine guns. I had to sell my Fleming sear. Could I sell a couple of host guns, SBR the rest of my host guns, and shoot them again with the Super Safety? That does have some appeal, but even if the Super Safety can mimic the same ROF, it can’t be the same experience because the shooter has to actually pull the trigger for each shot. Whereas I have had to learn trigger control for a machine gun with an actual machine gun with the selector in the AUTO position.

Again, the Super Safety is very cool and innovative. Right now I don’t have the funds to pursue a toy right now. For me, machine guns and other fast firing alternatives are just for fun. I feel that there are skills involved in shooting a machine gun. I am thankful that I have had that opportunity. To me, the alternatives are something else. If you want to turn ammo into noise the alternatives can do that. It certainly seems like the latest versions of fast firing alternatives seem to have more accurate aimed fire than previous fast firing devices.

But in actual subgun matches, other than sweeping a plate rack for style points, having a machine gun selector in the AUTO position is very challenging. Whereas a semi auto with a Super Safety, the shooter actually fires each shot.

Again, is the Super Safety innovative? Certainly, but to me, just as in the law, there is a real difference between an actual machine gun and a semi auto with a Super Safety installed. If the two are close enough for others, great. The Super Safety option would certainly save thousands of dollars compared to an actual registered machine gun. For me, I am so very fortunate to own a DIAS. To me a semi auto AR with a DIAS in it and a semi auto AR with a Super Safety in it are not the same. When my drop in was new it was $40 plus the stamp. I am old enough to have actually bought it when it was new. I wish I had. It would have saved $8,960.00. I would love to have the machine gun ban to be lifted so we all could have actual machine guns. But after having a Fleming sear, a Super Safety isn’t going to cut it for me. That is my choice. Your’s certainly can be different.

Scott

 

[ericthered]

Okay, by your definition, I am a Fudd. Is the Super Safety innovative? Sure, it is. It seems to me that all of the restrictive firearm regulations that I can think of, from the NFA of ‘34, to the GCA of’68, on and on, all come from tragedies. The NFA community is so very lucky that the Las Vegas shooter used a SlideFire. It is my understanding that the Las Vegas shooter had the means to buy transferable machine guns. What could that have done? Congress hasn’t done anything…yet. But we might very well be one tragedy away from losing full auto fire. It is my understanding that the Supreme Court has indicated that they don’t feel that machine guns are not covered under the Second Amendment.

I feel so very fortunate that I own machine guns. I so very much love the fun that I have had with my machine guns. I had to sell my Fleming sear. Could I sell a couple of host guns, SBR the rest of my host guns, and shoot them again with the Super Safety? That does have some appeal, but even if the Super Safety can mimic the same ROF, it can’t be the same experience because the shooter has to actually pull the trigger for each shot. Whereas I have had to learn trigger control for a machine gun with an actual machine gun with the selector in the AUTO position.

Again, the Super Safety is very cool and innovative. Right now I don’t have the funds to pursue a toy right now. For me, machine guns and other fast firing alternatives are just for fun. I feel that there are skills involved in shooting a machine gun. I am thankful that I have had that opportunity. To me, the alternatives are something else. If you want to turn ammo into noise the alternatives can do that. It certainly seems like the latest versions of fast firing alternatives seem to have more accurate aimed fire than previous fast firing devices.

But in actual subgun matches, other than sweeping a plate rack for style points, having a machine gun selector in the AUTO position is very challenging. Whereas a semi auto with a Super Safety, the shooter actually fires each shot.

Again, is the Super Safety innovative? Certainly, but to me, just as in the law, there is a real difference between an actual machine gun and a semi auto with a Super Safety installed. If the two are close enough for others, great. The Super Safety option would certainly save thousands of dollars compared to an actual registered machine gun. For me, I am so very fortunate to own a DIAS. To me a semi auto AR with a DIAS in it and a semi auto AR with a Super Safety in it are not the same. When my drop in was new it was $40 plus the stamp. I am old enough to have actually bought it when it was new. I wish I had. It would have saved $8,960.00. I would love to have the machine gun ban to be lifted so we all could have actual machine guns. But after having a Fleming sear, a Super Safety isn’t going to cut it for me. That is my choice. Your’s certainly can be different.

Scott

I would have to respectfully disagree on the cause of all of the gun control being due to bad guys doing bad things. We could have philosophical discussions as to how to fix the issue without compromising everyones 2nd amendment Right. But the bad actors were just a foil to push all of the gun control.
The 2nd amendment is not a privilege. It is a Right. The purpose of it is not to allow us to shoot duck and deere. It is for protection against bad guys. Whether in or out of government.

Scott, have you shot a Super Safety? If you have not, I would highly recommend it. I think you have a little bit of low expectations as to shooter feel. The super safety, even while using a mil spec trigger has extremely little trigger feel. The most noticeable it is in my 22lr. And it is so negligible that you dont think about it. In 9mm, 5.56, or 308 it is non existent. I think the recoil impulse and trigger pull kind of sync into a rhythm. But that is a guess.

I had wondered if a SS in a sub gun match would be a advantage due to being possibly able to pull singles better. Do any of you with both a SS and fa with similar fire rates notice a difference in trigger useability?

 

[strobro32]

Green levers and cam.

Try them, try them and you'll see.

It's better than a DIAS, paper free.

 

[root]

I would suggest trying one also Scott.
If you were closer you could try mine in the SP5 you would have a better opnion if it was close, the same,or just different.
For the SP5 and HK clones it's about 600 bux for the setup if you go all metal.
You can really cut the cost down with printed parts.
I call it a gizmo because that is what it is to me.
A gizmo I stuck on my SP5 to give me trigger slap that is hardly noticable.

My CAI Maddi has trigger slap so bad that the gun will run away unless you are super light or super heavy on the trigger.
Nice and gentle and it will bump a whole drum off your shoulder.
That is what the SS reminded me of on my 1st time shooting it.
To hard and nothing just singles, to light or just right and it fires super safe.
Or trigger slap bumpfire.
Difference iz the SS isn't pronounced like a AK or a semi M11/9 and doesn't hurt or feel weird like standard trigger slap.

That's about the best way I can explain it.

 

[Hey...]

I don’t want to explain to a cop that these gizmos are legal asking him to look at links in my phone… not worth the risk.

Life is going good… and in a split second you can be stuck waiting 2 weeks for a bond hearing all the while your job is in jeopardy, along with missed payments your family depends on.

Its not playing rich to shuffle a Mac or two around, but thinking these FRT devices aren’t machineguns and you’re going to win even medium term against buying a transferable ($ooner the better) doesn’t hold water for long.

I despise the 34/68/86 nfa rules but currently it’s established law that you can work with and have zero worries adhering to. FRTs are gasoline near a fire.

 

[strobro32]

Every LEO and his dog has witnessed the DOJ decision on FRTs in the last month. It was historicly embarrassing for the ATF. Ask the cop if he has access to the internet. When they say yes. Tell him in a calm confident manner to google DOJ FRT ATF. Lean back, look to the horizon and slowly smile without showing teeth. No explanation necessary.

 

[Hey...]

Ok.

Carry on

 

[root]

Gonna have to try the medical exemption at least once

 

[Deerhurst]

The only thing I want to add to strobro's thing on the SS. It does not raise the ROF of a firearm. It allows those of us that who are not Jerry Miculek to keep up with the semi auto firearm. there is no rate reducer in 99% of SA firearms and many will actually cycle faster than their FA counterpart.

Forces reset triggers are not new. They are semi auto only and NOT machine guns. They do not meet the definition as set by Congress.

I have been surprised by how well the SS works. I expected my trigger finger to be abused by trigger slap to make it work. Nope. In 22LR it.feels like a buzzy trigger. Anything bigger and it's essentially unnoticeable. Even running 500RPM or less slinging 147gr tokarev subs. Seriously, so slow I thought I had a malfunction and was about to get off the trigger and check when round 2 went off. that one runs slow.


I'm still on the side that MGs should be over the counter and suppressors should be sold in blister packs at Walmart.

 

[Alaska_Shooter]

I had wondered if a SS in a sub gun match would be a advantage due to being possibly able to pull singles better. Do any of you with both a SS and fa with similar fire rates notice a difference in trigger useability?

I shoot comps with MGs and I also shoot SSs. In an AR, the SS doesn’t have an advantage over the M16. They’re essentially the same

The SS will not replace MGs.

I think it does for a lot of people. It could for me anyway. I don’t shoot my RR M16 much anymore and just shoot SSs. If I was thinking about buying an M16 right now, I’d pass and get a SS instead

 

[strobro32]

I was a week away from buying an M16 when I took a gamble on the SS. I'm very glad I did. $70 over $20K saved me enough to get some ammo. In this case, the SS replaced a MG. I have the SS in every AR15 lower I own.

 

[Deerhurst]

I still want an M16 even with a SS in the toolbox.

 

[scottMO]

I’ve got a few Mac’s with 7 uppers and love them. I have 3x SS in 3 SBR lowers and have had good success. Since the Mac’s cover the 9mm and 5.56 options, I have the SS in a KS-47 in 7.62x39 and one in 5.7x28mm in a CMMG MK4. Both of these 2 run 100% and are a ton of fun. The 3rd is with a dedicated .22lr upper and it’s been more miss that hit. I’ve tried 3 different uppers in 4.5”, 7” and 16”, with 2 different dedicated bolts, a bore buddy trip and weight set, and a ton of different ammo with nothing consistent..

 

[SecondAmend]

I’ve got a few Mac’s with 7 uppers and love them. I have 3x SS in 3 SBR lowers and have had good success. Since the Mac’s cover the 9mm and 5.56 options, I have the SS in a KS-47 in 7.62x39 and one in 5.7x28mm in a CMMG MK4. Both of these 2 run 100% and are a ton of fun. The 3rd is with a dedicated .22lr upper and it’s been more miss that hit. I’ve tried 3 different uppers in 4.5”, 7” and 16”, with 2 different dedicated bolts, a bore buddy trip and weight set, and a ton of different ammo with nothing consistent..

The need for a certain level of finger dexterity is a major factor that has kept me from considering the SSS, FRT, and the like, so I'm keeping the machineguns that I have. It appears that one need not be able to play the guitar like Alvin Lee (ref below), but a greater level of finger dexterity than I have seems to be required.

 

[strobro32]

I think there is a noticeable difference between the SS and the RB FRT-15 when it comes to finger dexterity. The FRT-15 requires concentration on finger pressure because too hard will slow down the ROF and jam the bolt. The SS requires almost no concentration except for 22LR.. All my concentration is on the sights or target.

 

[Alaska_Shooter]

The need for a certain level of finger dexterity is a major factor that has kept me from considering the SS

Try shooting a SS. I don’t do anything special other than jam the trigger back as hard or as easily as I want

 

[SecondAmend]

I think there is a noticeable difference between the SS and the RB FRT-15 when it comes to finger dexterity. The FRT-15 requires concentration on finger pressure because too hard will slow down the ROF and jam the bolt. The SS requires almost no concentration except for 22LR.. All my concentration is on the sights or target.

For the last several years .22LR has been the only caliber that I've shot very much in full auto; and I expect that to continue to be the case.

MHO, YMMV, etc.