Throwing in the towel on my M-11/22 kit

[YourCoWorker]

That offer is very generous, thank you. Would barrel aligning allow me to fire 147gn truncated round nose reliably? Having 30% failure to chamber. I have to fire 115 gr exclusively, which is 100% reliable. By the way, I am using PAM2 mags that have been trimmed back somewhat to mimic the Zytels. I only have one original OEM Zytel that I have never tried with either.

Yes, that bevel is correct.

Keep in mind, magazines not seating may also indicate the barrel in your upper is sitting too low, making the ejector plate sit low and interfere with the magazine. Raising the barrel would also decrease the distance from the feedlips to the centerline of the bore.

If you have not had your barrel aligned, feel free to send your upper and .22 kit and we will align it and test fire it for free.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

Truncated, flat nose and hollow points can all be problematic. Raising the barrel up a little (.020" to .030") may aggravate it.

Adjusting your feedramp in your lower receiver up can greatly increase the reliablilty. Since you have steel magazines, you can adjust the feedlips to change the angle of the bullet presentation. The bullet at the feed lips in the magazine should be tilted up, pointing at the chamber at roughly 7 degrees from horizontal. Spreading the feedlips open at the front will change the angle of the bullets. Keep the feed lips straight, narrow at the back, wide at the front.

 

[YourCoWorker]

I performed a reversable adjustment to the feed ramp by epoxying on a polished bit of hacksaw blade, thicker at the top and 147gn feed 100% reliable.
Problem was the epoxy only lasted a couple mags and the gun reverted itself back to the stock configuration. Never found the bit of hacksaw blade.

I had thought about bending the feed ramp permanently, but opted against it.

I'll let you know about the barrel adjustment after I test the .22 kit some more.

I have to say Richard, that your kits and parts have provided more value for MG owners than anything else I can think of. Your products have turned a fun little, not so good buzz gun in to a proper subgun, so I will take this opportunity to thank you for doing it and to tell you how much I enjoy owning it.

Truncated, flat nose and hollow points can all be problematic. Raising the barrel up a little (.020" to .030") may aggravate it.

Adjusting your feedramp in your lower receiver up can greatly increase the reliablilty. Since you have steel magazines, you can adjust the feedlips to change the angle of the bullet presentation. The bullet at the feed lips in the magazine should be tilted up, pointing at the chamber at roughly 7 degrees from horizontal. Spreading the feedlips open at the front will change the angle of the bullets. Keep the feed lips straight, narrow at the back, wide at the front.

 

[YourCoWorker]

I broke the tit off of the loader on my first mag.
30 rounds in...

Now I have to rant, with all due respect.
Let's go back a few years. Black dog AR22 mags with plastic feed lips. Ran them until they wore out.
Bought (20) of the solid metal mags @ $60 each. Still have them. Perfect.
Then they came out with the metal feed lip plastic mags. Bought (60) of them. Love them. I use them every month.

I know why everything is made of plastic, but there is a market for metal.

If there were Max 11/22 metal mags and loaders I'm in big time. Just in one firing I can see the feed lips wearing away and the rounds stand on end held by the rim only.
I'm in this for the fun. This is my #1 hobby and I go big with my hobbies. I want reliability, durability and cost is 3rd.

...ok, end of rant. please take that in the spirit in which it is intended.

First of all, STOP! Don't even bother trying until you get a loader. Seriously.

Second, why don't you have one already? They come standard with the 22 kit.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

All of the wear should be on the steel feed lips of the ejector plate.

PM or e-mail me about the loader and I'll take care of it.

 

[JOHN E]

Breaking the loader is a sign of loading the magazine incorrectly.

 

[YourCoWorker]

John, please. For goodness sake, are you serious? I don't know how to use a loader or load a magazine? Go raise your post count somewhere else, we are trying to fix a problem here.

 

[JOHN E]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying, I broke one too.

 

[JOHN E]

Richard took 6+ years developing this kit and I know that everything was designed to follow the ABC's of operation. If you do ABC, it will work. If you don't, I'm not sure what the result will be (ie- not using a loader, not following a good break-in period, dirty kit, dirty mags, dry firing etc...).
.

Read this again......

 

[JOHN E]

And just to raise my post count, start reading here:
http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?43608-Lage-.22-Update!&daysprune=-1

 

[YourCoWorker]

I'm not reading 70 pages of ancient history to fix my problem. John, I'm not a bad guy, actually I'm pretty reasonable, so let's start over.
If you have an M11/nine and a Lage .22 kit, and have read my saga, please help me fix it.
I have a brand new kit and brand new mags and will spend any amount of money and time to have it run. Pretty simple. If it won't, then it won't. Chalk it up to whatever. If it will, then I will make my kit work.

Just making a documentary here. I will post back at the next firing with all constructive suggestions explored.

 

[medphys]

John, please. For goodness sake, are you serious? I don't know how to use a loader or load a magazine? Go raise your post count somewhere else, we are trying to fix a problem here.

Believe it or not, we are trying to help you. I can almost guarantee that every issue you have or will have in the future has already occurred and been addressed by someone else. However, if you feel it necessary to question our motives and suggestions and chose to redesign Richard's kit, feel free.

 

[medphys]

I'm not reading 70 pages of ancient history to fix my problem. John, I'm not a bad guy, actually I'm pretty reasonable, so let's start over.
If you have an M11/nine and a Lage .22 kit, and have read my saga, please help me fix it.
I have a brand new kit and brand new mags and will spend any amount of money and time to have it run. Pretty simple. If it won't, then it won't. Chalk it up to whatever. If it will, then I will make my kit work.

Just making a documentary here. I will post back at the next firing with all constructive suggestions explored.

There is a lot of information in that thread.

 

[JOHN E]

1. Send your upper and kit in for alignment
2. Load your magazines properly
3. Try a few different types of ammunition
4. Put a few thousand rounds through the kit

If you are pushing hard enough to break the plunger on the loader, you probably have a crossed over rim loaded in the magazine. The more rounds you load on top of the crossover, the stiffer the resistance will be. The crossed over rims will also cause feed jams or misfires. If you have high resistance when loading, unload the magazine and reload it. When stripping rounds to unload it, you will probably find the crossed over rounds as they will not strip without dragging the round underneath forward.
Richard Lage 5/05/2011
Post here: http://www.uzitalk.com/forums/showthread.php?43608-Lage-.22-Update!/page34

 

[yzfchet]

Understood regarding the timing Richard, thank you for the details.

I was using lead round nose, and they were "sticky". During my next test fire, I will put copper washed rounds on my list to try in the unmodified mags.

For a benchmark, try shooting a couple of magazines of CCI Stinger ammo. This eliminates the round from contributing to your problem.

 

[bac0nfat]

John, please. For goodness sake, are you serious? I don't know how to use a loader or load a magazine? Go raise your post count somewhere else, we are trying to fix a problem here.

He's actually right about that. I also broke a loader. If you do it properly, there should be VERY minimal resistance, even for the last few rounds of the mag. It's amazing how easy the rims can lock up on a straight-stacked .22 mag. Once you start feeling that resistance, unload a few rounds and try again.

 

[chili17]

you guys play nice

 

[root]

Now I have to rant, with all due respect.
Let's go back a few years. Black dog AR22 mags with plastic feed lips. Ran them until they wore out.
Bought (20) of the solid metal mags @ $60 each. Still have them. Perfect.
Then they came out with the metal feed lip plastic mags. Bought (60) of them. Love them. I use them every month.

I didn't buy as many as you only 10 at the 60 bux a pop price.
One has lost the ejector and BDM can't/won't fix it.
Also have a few gen 2 and 3 mags like you. for my dedicated 1/16 twist ar .22 upper.

I'm in this for the fun. This is my #1 hobby and I go big with my hobbies. I want reliability, durability and cost is 3rd.

I'm with you here too...

I don't know a thing about your kit as I have a M/10 and a flemming .22 kit ( runs 100% BTW)

But I will add like you if I get frustrated enough I will sell it with a low price and full discloser.

My 9mm conversion that came with my M/10 is a perfect example.

Never got it to run ( over a year trying) sold all the 9mm stuff to board members that have M/10's that are 9mm. And to get my 9mm sub gun fix I just went ahead and bought a 9mm sub gun.

SO I would say either :

1 keep at it.

2 send it back to LAGE ( he's AWESOME)

4 sell it and move on.

Sorry I'm not more help with this but the M/11 I have is a semi pistol the M/10 is FA Subgun.

But those 3 steps are how I handle my hobby and like you I'm not afraid to buy once cry once.
( why the hell did BDM ever quit making those aluminum 22 mags? they are the shizzzz)

 

[towerboat]

Finally made it to the range today to run my kit after some more tweaking. I smoothed out that ledge on the chamber block which improved feeding and bolt momentum. Big improvement! No more rounds jammed in the chamber. The mags still seemed to drop just enough under fire to prevent the bolt from picking up the next round, so I did some additional filing on the mag catch notch. With a more solid lock up, my m11/22 kit ran through full magazines of mini mags like it never has.:uzi

 

[9mmsubgun-m11]

Glad to hear you had some success!