Uzi vs. 9mm AR-15: Worth the money?

[mkellett]

My SA Vector is a load of fun, and I can only shoot pistol calibers at our local indoor range (our ONLY shooting range). So, I was considering building a 9mm AR.

From doing some digging here and on AR-15.com, I'll probably go with the Rock River upper and lower, and the hytec (sp?) mag block that uses unmodified Uzi mags.

My question to you gentlemen is: Is is worth about $800 to build one of these (I'd make a dedicated lower, too), or is the Uzi so superior that I'll regret spending the money?

I love AR's (have two now) but I can't shoot .223 anywhere around here (legally).

My main concern is functional reliability and overall cost vs. fun factor.

Any real experience with the two weapons would be appreciated.

 

[Joe in Fl]

UZI vs AR15 9MM

Go with the AR also if you can. It makes a nice addition and they do shoot nice. I dont know anything about the R.R. uppers and lowers but the Colt I had several years ago was great. I wish I still had it. It makes a nice platform suppressed. I have a F.A. Vector suppressed and love it.
Also with the AR you have the option of many different caliber conversions if you do find a place to shoot rifle caliber.
HTH, Joe

 

[hartzpad]

I considered an AR in 9mm when I was deciding on an UZI.

If I already had an AR-15 I would just get a 9mm upper and be done. The AR has superior ergonomics and still has the "evil" factor that the UZI has. But one of the best things about the AR is the bolt hold open, release, which does not function in 9mm, and because that doesn't work, it makes the charging hand a pain in the butt (because you usually never have to use it, just hit the bolt release). Not to mention a greater overall length than the UZI.

It is because of these reasons and because of price that I went with the UZI and I'm very happy.

 

[MuzzleFlash]

With the VM Hytech adaptor, there is not a bolt hold open. Other adaptors using colt mags do provide this capability if it's important to you.

I have an RRA lower sitting in my safe waiting on the 9mm no-ban RRA upper. I ordered it through Eagle Arms about 2 months ago. Still waiting and still no joy. Every time I call Eagle, they tell me RRA won't give them an ETA.

I have ordered stuff from Eagle in the past. They are good folks. RRA is quickly becoming a PITA to do business with. It's like they don't give a shit about the small guys anymore.

 

[SlamFire1]

I built a 9mm AR before I got my Uzi. The one I built is all Rock River parts with a VM Hytech block. I too was very apprehensive upon building the AR, but I eventually took the plunge and just did it. It all paid off after my first session at the range. The rifle was flawless and worked 100%. The Hytech block works wonderful and is very economical due to it using the unmodified Uzi mags. I would definitely recommend building one if you have the cash to do it.

 

[rickyv]

Hi mkellett!
I own and enjoy both my Uzi and my Colt 9MM SBR. I have to be honest...the Uzi is a little more fun......although the Colt 9mm gets some really interesting looks at the range. I built it using a Colt Model R0635 SMG upper receiver w/10.5" barrel on a Colt 9mm AR-15 lower. Perfect fit...color matched....and the SMG bolt isn't an issue with the 9mm....the semi's came with an SMG bolt in the first place.

I can't imagine anyone being disappointed in the 9mm AR-15....but I still prefer my Uzi. (Shhhhh! My Colt will hear me..... ) I say build it and have fun....if you decide you don't like it .....just sell it.

 

[Gun Shot]

MF, if the frustration becomes too much brother, you could always sell that lower to me...haha! Seriously though, because Eagle has been OOS on the RRA's for so long, I've been thinking about picking up a Stag instead.

As far as picking a 9mm AR15 or an UZI, that really depends on which one you like better. Ultimately, I don't think it matters, because you need both!

 

[mkellett]

Hey Gun Shot, you're absolutely right... I do NEED both! Now, can you please call my wife and explain that to her for me...

With all of the backorder problems, it seems like I won't be having to pay for anything, any time soon, so I can start "planning" my project now, pay later.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

 

[ratski]

Mkellet,

Well first off your premise is flawed.
Worth the money?????
What a ridiculous question to ask, especially with this group!!!
My wife would answer an emphatic NO.
Me, I’d answer an emphatic NO also. It is worth MORE than the money.

If you can afford to get and/or build the AR 9mm go for it. Even if you just get an upper for one of your existing lowers for now and dedicate the lower later.

I second the recommendation for the VM Hytech adaptor if you can get one.
Mine took a little dremel time to get set the way I wanted it, but I think it was one of the first generation runs. With the adapter, you can use the unmodified Uzi mags. Nice to be able to shoot both guns with one mag. There is a posting here somewhere on how to make a cardboard lattice for the .50 cal ammo cans to hold between 24 and 35 uzi mags per can depending on the size. Nice to only have to hassle with one can. (Although you can modify the measurements for any mags and any cans)

The only draw back to the VM Hytech adaptor is that there isn’t a good candidate for the Beta Mag feed tower. There are some folks working on it, but not sure if it will materialize.

Nice things about the AR platform:

1. It is a nice gun.
2. You can swap out uppers and go with many pistol and rifle calibers
3. It is a fun gun.
4. You can always work towards a RDIAS or LL and move it around your lowers
5. It is a nice fun gun
6. It is easier to control (on FA) than an Uzi.
7. Sighting is probably easier than the Uzi (unless you have a red dot)
8. Both the Uzi and the AR are nice fun guns.

There are some parts kits floating around now (minus receivers) for around 800 with two mags. It is nice to have some Colt mags and the mag block, but not necessary if you get the VM Hytech adaptor up and running. I have both and haven’t used the Colt mags or block in several years.

When I get set for the range, the AR is one of the first two that I pull out of the safe. The Uzi is the other of the first two.

BTW, why can’t you shoot .223 anywhere? No land around?

Oh yeah, did I mention that it is a fun gun?

Dave

 

[MuzzleFlash]

If any of you guys has a FFL (even a C&R) Brownells is selling the VM Hytech adaptor now and the FFL discount is the best price I have found.

 

[mkellett]

We don't have any "public" land to shoot on (without doing time for it, at least) and our indoor range does not allow rifle calibers.

It seems when our stupid-ass city government people agreed to approve the building of the range (it's right in the middle of the city, next door to a Starbucks, no shit) the owners had to sign a sworn agreement to never fire rifles or rifle-caliber handguns in the range.

The owner has a statement from the specialized contractor who installed the range system that shows the range will stop some gawd-awful beastly things like AP .50 cal, but still no joy.

So, we make the best of what we have... It's still a beautiful range with automated, timed target carriers, the works.

I found a NIB Colt pre-ban (not LEO) 9mm AR for $1400. Should I buy it? By my math, I can build (someday) a Rock River complete gun with the hytek block for $865; a RRA lower with an AAC Intergral-suppressed 16" upper w/floating rail handguard for $1510; or the colt for $1400.

What do you guys think?

 

[Gun Shot]

I'm holding off on my next build, the backlog is aweful and the gouging some folks are doing is just plain silly.

Thx for the tip MF

 

[Kenneth Lew]

It seems when our stupid-ass city government people agreed to approve the building of the range (it's right in the middle of the city, next door to a Starbucks, no shit) the owners had to sign a sworn agreement to never fire rifles or rifle-caliber handguns in the range.

A Starbucks in Bryan! The nerve of those liberals bringing a Starbucks there!

 

[dawg180]

Well, wellk, well, did you ever luck out, becuse I have both a semi Vector Uzi AND a 9mm Rock River AR with the VM Hytech block, and can compare the two!

The Vector Uzi and the 9mm AR are apples and oranges., here is my take on each:

The Uzi is a great "fun gun" although a bit heavy for what it shoots. I definitely like ripping through mags on semi auto, but it is nothing like an AR-15. It is also 100% reliable and runs right out of the box. this is also the easiest 9mm longarm in the world to clean, thanks to the removable topcover.

The 9mm AR-15 is definitely a "frankenstien" beast, and may take a little tweaking to get running, but when it runs, boy does it run! The ergonomics are better on the AR-15 and it seems (at least for me) that the accuracy is better. Accuracy in part may be due to me having a lot of trigger time on AR's vs. the Uzi (three years vs. 6 months for the Uzi). The 9mm AR is invaluable if you want to keep the same generla "Manual of arms" and keeping up your skills with the AR during the winter.

One thing I was concerened about was the VM Hytech blcok and the change in magazine catch position. A lto of people reported they would accidentally press the .223 magazine catch and dump the block on the ground. What I have found is that having used those Uzi stick mags makes me hold them and insert them just like the Uzi, so I have never any problems with accidentally "dumping the block." In addition, at least on my AR the block fits snugly enough aginst the upper when inserted that I can't depress the .223 mag catch and acccidentally dump it- I actaully have to split the upper/lower to insert it and lock it in, which is a good thing IMHO.

The 9mm upper + VM Hytech mag block + Uzi mags may require a slight amount of tweaking to the Uzi mag followers to get all the rounds to feed. Due to the steep angle of the last couple of rounds on the uzi mag follower, the 9mm AR bolt doesn't always strip the last 1-4 rounds in about 30-40% of setups. the easy solution is to bend the legs on the follower a little until the angle flattens out enough that the mag will feed all the rounds, and yes, the mags will still work fine in your Uzi.

I would highly reocmmend having both setups, especially if you want to practice with your AR skills on a pistol range- that is exaclty why I got my 9mm AR upper after getting the Vector Uzi. Feel free to email me at dawg180[at]yahoo.com if you have any other questions. I post a lot on the AR15.com pistol/rimfire caliber forums and helped set up the FAQ over there, so I have a pretty good idea what is going on.

Dawg

IMHO, unless that colt comes with several (5+) colt style mags skip on it and go with the RRA setup. You are simply paying for name brand and from what I read you want a shooter, not a collectors piece.

 

[mkellett]

Dawg,

Thanks for the gret insite. I've decided to go the RRA route, and just wait patiently for stuff to come available.

Have you done the "ramped bolt" thing that M60Joe offers, to preserve the hammer? I know this is a real issue on FA's, but how will an SA hold up without this mod?

Thanks again!

 

[dawg180]

I have not ramped my bolt, and noramlly I wouldn't even worry about it in a semi except that I am running it on a homebuilt lower, and hvave some concerns on my meager anodizing job and that the bolt has an ugly bump from some bad machining that is chewing up the front top edge of my DMPS hammer alittle bit and ramping will take care of that.

Unfortunately I am dead flat broke right now after buying the upper (plus two M48 Yugo mausers and 2000 rounds of 5.56mm the other day) so it will just have to wait. Send me an email, I have some more info you might be interested in.

Dawg

 

[lkblair]

Is the gas system on the 9mm AR differnt than the 223? Is it still the direct gas or is there a rod?

 

[mkellett]

There's no gas system on a 9mm AR. It's a straight blow-back system, no gas tube or block on the barrel, etc.

 

[lkblair]

So it just uses the pressure on the buffer tube spring to run and hold pressure? So it would be (in theroy) more reliable.

 

[ELVIS]

I got to shoot a Colt 635 (9mm SMG) when the Colt rep came here. Damn that thing was sweet. Not as fun to shoot as say a MP5SD, but it was still fun. The semi 9mm Colt is fun as well. Nothing against the UZI,it is just heavy as crap for a 9mm smg. For me the only thing I don't really like about the UZI is the angle of cheek weld with the folder.