Versa 11 issues

[10mmlover]

Day 1: So I loaded up a bunch of different types of Scorpion Evo mags and went to the range with the evo version of the upper combo. The manticore arms mags would never fire more than 1 round before jamming, sometimes wouldn't even do the 1 round. The Magpul EV-50 mags were the same. As you can see in the video, I was able to get more rounds off with the Palmetto State Armory AK-V scorpion mags although they jammed a good amount as well. When I got home I took off the mag piece and compared it to the Glock mag lower which I haven't tried yet. My best guess is that the bit of flash on the metal feed ramp insert (that's roll pinned into the large plastic magwell upper insert) is causing the rounds to drag. I noticed that some of the rounds on the ground had some brass gouged out of them, and now seeing this burr in the feed ramp makes sense. Gonna try the Glock mag one tomorrow.

Day 2: So I went back to the range with a bunch of Glock oem 33 rounders and as you can see in the second video, everything worked great and I had a blast. Then I literally had a blast. The next mag which I didn't get on video got a few rounds into the magazine and then had an out of battery detonation which blew up the plastic parts of the Versa upper. This is my 4th Lage upper and I've never had these kinds of issues with their other parts or uppers.

edit: In case anyone asks, It's PMC factory 9mm 147gr fmj round nose. It's been running great in my other guns and other Lage uppers.

 

[rchaisch]

Ooof!

I assume you're ok?

 

[10mmlover]

Ooof!

I assume you're ok?

Yeah all good. I guess I'm glad it was 9mm and not 5.56. I checked the barrel and it's got a slug in there. I'm sitting here trying to think about what happened with this one and I'm wondering if the last glock mag one was a squib and the deonation was the one afterwards. I've been using pmc ammo forever and never had a problem with it.

 

[skoda]

I had feed issues with my Soumi mag adaptor. I sent it to Lage with some of my mags and they had no problem. We both used the same ammo (Blazer brass 115). I got it back and I still have the problem. A little more investigation and it seems that there is some front to back play in the mag well and if the mag is tilted up it feeds fine. If I let the mag hang straight down it wouldn't feed one round. I guess it has to do with the way you hold the gun while firing. My Glock adaptor had no problem. Jackie Lage said that they make a tighter adaptor that isn't always drop free. I'll try that next.

I love the Versa, it's the best Lage product by far. I guess that being a new product it has some teething issues.

I shot mine so much that when I got a dead primer round and jacked it out it went off just sitting on the table - a cook off!

 

[10mmlover]

I had feed issues with my Soumi mag adaptor. I sent it to Lage with some of my mags and they had no problem. We both used the same ammo (Blazer brass 115). I got it back and I still have the problem. A little more investigation and it seems that there is some front to back play in the mag well and if the mag is tilted up it feeds fine. If I let the mag hang straight down it wouldn't feed one round. I guess it has to do with the way you hold the gun while firing. My Glock adaptor had no problem. Jackie Lage said that they make a tighter adaptor that isn't always drop free. I'll try that next.

I love the Versa, it's the best Lage product by far. I guess that being a new product it has some teething issues.

I shot mine so much that when I got a dead primer round and jacked it out it went off just sitting on the table - a cook off!

Thanks for your reply, it lines up with what I had with the scorpion mags. even independent of that burr on the feed ramp, the very tight palmetto mags fed way better than the scorpion mag spec ones which barely even fed 1. The downside of all this is that if you have a feed issue on a floating firing pin gun, nothing happens. but with a fixed firing pin you have a detonation even if it's out of battery.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

Keep an eye on where you put your hand at the front of the handguard. If you position it too far back or your hand slips back, the charging handle can hit your hand and cause the bolt to not fully go into battery or cause a feed jam.

I’ll spend some more time trying to figure out what is causing the failures.

The 147gr ammo you are shooting is round nose, correct? Flat nose, truncated or hollow point ammo will have feed problems.

We will replace the mag modules for free, of course.

I will do more testing with 147 gr. Round nose on Monday.

Also, you may find it is more comfortable to hold the gun by wrapping your off hand around the magwell and put your thumb behind the charging handle. I found I also shoot more accurately this way.

 

[10mmlover]

Keep an eye on where you put your hand at the front of the handguard. If you position it too far back or your hand slips back, the charging handle can hit your hand and cause the bolt to not fully go into battery or cause a feed jam.

I’ll spend some more time trying to figure out what is causing the failures.

The 147gr ammo you are shooting is round nose, correct? Flat nose, truncated or hollow point ammo will have feed problems.

We will replace the mag modules for free, of course.

I will do more testing with 147 gr. Round nose on Monday.

Also, you may find it is more comfortable to hold the gun by wrapping your off hand around the magwell and put your thumb behind the charging handle. I found I also shoot more accurately this way.

Thanks for the update. Parts to get a proper vertical grip going are on the way so that should ensure that there's no charging handle shenanigans going on. Yeah this particular PMC 147gr ammo is the only round nose version I'm aware of, all other versions have a tip that's not conducive to the m11. I'm also ordering some S&B 115gr that you mention on your FAQ on your site to be sure.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

In the video of the EVO mag', it looks like the bolt caught the round mid point on the brass case. Nose is pointed up and bolt is contacting side of case. This will leave a gauge on the case. This can be caused by either the bolt not recoiling back far enough to catch the rear of the case or by the magazine not pushing rounds up fast enough to be in position for the bolt to strip the round.

For trouble shooting purposes, I would try two things. First, clean your mag's, second try some full power full metal jacket 115 gr. ammo, preferably Blazer Brass. This will help narrow down where the problem may be.

Regarding feed issues, you can usually see evidence on the feed ramp of where the bullets are dragging. There typically is a brass rub mark from the bullet tip or there is a mark left in the carbon fouling. In your photo, I see carbon fouling, but I don't see any marks. The shiny spot on the feedramp at the upper right corner may be from the front corner of the bolt rubbing on the feedramp,

 

[ScubaLoser]

My friend has a scorpion Evo 3 and everytime we go to the range it would jam. We figured out only OEM msgs worked. The aftermarket ones had different feed lips, non-OEM were shorter and slightly wider lips. Might be worth checking

 

[Hey...]

If you need more spring tension you can sacrifice one spring to make 3 magazines a lot stronger.

This works for MACs too, I use this method with my 50rnd Zmags. The 30s I simply put in a PAM2 spring.

Measure your existing spring and ad 15% to the length. Clip that amount off the donor spring and use a 1/8” roll pin to link them together. You may lose a round or two of capacity but should be more reliable in full auto.

 

[strobro32]

Check your mags.

I shot 600+ rounds and 17 different Soumi stick mags this morning and tested both the Versa 12 Suomi Drum Magazine Module and Suomi M31 Stick, Push Button Magazine Module. Two of the mags had problems. One mag was a NOS and the other was a "well used" mag. The NOS ejected out of the mag module with every shot. The Soumi stick mag catch was manufactured poorly. The "well used" Suomi stick mag would not feed reliably because of rough/dented feed lips.

I also have 1 out of 20 OEM 33rd Glock mag that does not feed reliably with the G17 mag module. The rest work very well.

My only PSA 35 rd AK-V 9mm mag did not work with the Scorpion module. The bolt would hit the mag body. I never tried with live ammo. I wanted the PSA AK-V steel feed lip mags to work because they are $16. I forgot to check to see if they could be modified for the Lage Scorpion mag module.

 

[scottMO]

Versa 11- I have the Glock module and the scorpion module with the push button mag release on both. The Glock adapter ran 100%, with the scorpion adapter, i had a failure to feed on the last round every time when using multiple mags. I’ve just continued to use the Glock one and all is well with it. This thread has reminded me that I need to try the scorpion adapter again and try all new mags, including factory CZ, Magpul and AK-V mags.

 

[m11stuff@hotmail.com]

Versa 11- I have the Glock module and the scorpion module with the push button mag release on both. The Glock adapter ran 100%, with the scorpion adapter, i had a failure to feed on the last round every time when using multiple mags. I’ve just continued to use the Glock one and all is well with it. This thread has reminded me that I need to try the scorpion adapter again and try all new mags, including factory CZ, Magpul and AK-V mags.

Which manufacturer of Scorpion mag’ have you had those problems? I don’t believe the AK-V mags will work, but give it a try and let us know.

 

[scottMO]

Which manufacturer of Scorpion mag’ have you had those problems? I don’t believe the AK-V mags will work, but give it a try and let us know.

I’ll test it again tomorrow and report back.

 

[scottMO]

Shot the Scorpion adapter today with zero issues and had a blast I used the standard 1x buffer. I used 4 different types of stick magazines and 2 different drums. i put these in order of tightest to loosest, L to Right:

PSA / Soviet AK-V triangle marked mag (perfect fit)
Magpul Evo Drum-had to push it in
PSA AK-V Drum- had to smack it to lock it in
magpul Evo 3 mag new in package-
magpul Evo 3/3+ mag new in package
CZ Factory mag (loosest)

WWB 115gr ammo.

so I’m guessing that my prev experience with the Scorpion adapter was a used Scorpion mag(s) with a worn out spring? Maybe a burr or something that pushed up the last round? Regardless, no issues today! I’ll try again using 2 and or 3 buffers with the same 6 mags again and see if any of the mags can’t keep up with the ROF and post results.

 

[rchaisch]

I can't remember if this has been asked - What are the best Glock 17 drums that we can use for the Versa 10?

 

[strobro32]

My PSA plum AK-V triangle marked mag didn't come anywhere close to clearing the bolt. I may need to purchase another Lage module and try again.

Sad times. I broke my selector pin this morning. I will be hitting the Lages up for one of those too.

 

[THM7]

Funny I just broke my selector just the other day. Sheared near disconnector. Richard was nice enough to give me one out of a parts bin. I live close to his shop. Probably should have a few as they are definitely a “wear” item.
I have a few subguns (BRP) that definitely run best using Magtech 115grn steel case with zinc plating. The bullet is standard lead/ no steel. Anyway the double feed Suomi mags in BRP guns can deform the brass cased ammo during feeding. With a accompanying malfunction. Have not had any problems shooting the Magtech in Versa11 with Evo module. OEM and ETS mags

 

[strobro32]

Yesterday everything I touched broke. I took three guns to the range and all had problems. Shortest range day ever.

I broke the extractor pin on the Versa 12 this morning. The extractor was pushing out and the extractor claw started smashing the case rim. I had another spring and spring pin on hand so that was no big deal but the extractor pin had a blind hole until the bolt comes apart. Richard guided me through the disassembly of the bolt and I was back in business. I shot another 540 rounds with the Suomi mags. Love it.

 

[THM7]

Will have to check my extractor. Usually my stuff breaks during matches…does not matter what kind of gun. Been shooting the Versa11 in semi auto to get ready for AZ State PCC in Sept. Where they have a Full auto division. So trying to get all the kinks out.