When was the last upper design approved?

[Gaujo]

Title says it. What was the last upper to get an approval, and what was the date?

6/13/2018 Lage max11/15
This is the latest I know of. Was the tenco prototype after that and are there any other known ones?

 

[rybread]

That is the last one I’m aware of. The tenco “disapproval” came after, as I recall. Some of the AA12 stuff happened around the same time, also.

 

[A&S Conversions]

It seems to me that the turning point was Trump telling the ATF to make bumpstocks illegal after the use of Slidefire stocks in the Las Vegas festival shooting. We received the original determination of the 3D plastic version December 2017. We submitted the machined aluminum version October of 2018. In December of 2018 ATF notified FFL holders of a change in submission requirements that all submissions would only be installed in a complete firearm. We were notified February 1, 2019 that our submission would be returned because the submission was not installed in a complete firearm. We resubmitted with a transferable M10 registered receiver which they received March 6, 2019. March 8, 2019 we received an email that our submission was evaluated. March 26, 2019 bump stocks became machineguns. After repeated attempts no further information was given. August 2019 we did get a return email that the evaluation was sent to the legal department with no estimate of time frame for an answer. March 2020 we received the determination dated February 22, 2020 in which our adapter with an AR upper was a machinegun.

It seems to me that Trump tells the ATF to ban bump stocks even when they don't have the authority to make new law, seems to have emboldened them to make determinations on political views rather than actual law.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

 

[Roaster72]

It seems to me that the turning point was Trump telling the ATF to make bumpstocks illegal after the use of Slidefire stocks in the Las Vegas festival shooting. We received the original determination of the 3D plastic version December 2017. We submitted the machined aluminum version October of 2018. In December of 2018 ATF notified FFL holders of a change in submission requirements that all submissions would only be installed in a complete firearm. We were notified February 1, 2019 that our submission would be returned because the submission was not installed in a complete firearm. We resubmitted with a transferable M10 registered receiver which they received March 6, 2019. March 8, 2019 we received an email that our submission was evaluated. March 26, 2019 bump stocks became machineguns. After repeated attempts no further information was given. August 2019 we did get a return email that the evaluation was sent to the legal department with no estimate of time frame for an answer. March 2020 we received the determination dated February 22, 2020 in which our adapter with an AR upper was a machinegun.

It seems to me that Trump tells the ATF to ban bump stocks even when they don't have the authority to make new law, seems to have emboldened them to make determinations on political views rather than actual law.

Scott
Manager A&S Conversions L.L.C.

It's nice to see someone who gets it. The Trump administration was terrible for gun rights. Of course what you mention is the worst. Close behind is the utter failure of the House and Senate to pass the Hearing Protection Act. All we were asking for was for silencers to be Title 1. It's not like we wanted those gun freedoms of Great Britain where they are completely unregulated.

Yes, I believe you are right that the ATF is emboldened. They were ordered to ban a piece of plastic and it worked. Trump created and gave the gameplan for future bans to the now Democrat administration. Combine that with Texas' moves with their abortion ban where an individual can sue anyone for damages where they facilitated an abortion. It is a de facto $10,000 bounty for turning someone in. Now transpose abortion with gun. Enjoy getting sued by your neighbor when the ATF bans the next silly piece of plastic.

I apologize getting political with my response but I don't see good things in the future for any approvals. those of us who enjoy cars are seeing the same things happen. Programmers for car ecus are now getting banned by the EPA. They don't care that it is for an offroad vehicle, it is banned because someone "may" use that vehicle onroad. Welcome to the regulatory state fellas, that's what both parties want.

https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/pu...stop-selling-illegal-devices-defeat-emissions

 

[Galil#1]

Roaster your right and too kind with your words IMHO... these are worthless communist scumbags who sold out America/2A long ago. As much as I/we like Papa Trump, he did middle finger 2A thus setting the stage for further attacks on all things 2A issues/rights. He should of noticed and cared that ammo cost was going to massive ass rape status etc. = Firearms/2A are almost worthless if you can't buy ammo/forced to pay triple $$$ because of price gouging/BS excuses of greedy turds IMHO. Anywho reckon can always be worse and life goes on. Just hate these garbage communists F'ing our Rights/Freedoms with all the relentless subterfuge. Be nice if all the America/2A haters just went back to hell where they all came from, again just IMHO. Rant off for now.

 

[sniperdoc]

It's sad that everyone doesn't recognize that without the 2nd Amendment, the rest of the Constitution is simply a list of government granted privileges that can be revoked on a whim.

As far as approvals, I don't foresee much happening until Congress steps in and issues clear and firm directives.

 

[Galil#1]

Nd

It's sad that everyone doesn't recognize that without the 2nd Amendment, the rest of the Constitution is simply a list of government granted privileges that can be revoked on a whim.

As far as approvals, I don't foresee much happening until Congress steps in and issues clear and firm directives.

EXACTLY!
Even within 2A, Title II is like a "small " niche sub issue... many don't know, don't care, don't understand, or think o why do you need that, your not in the Army etc. So it's almost non "issue," concern, or pressure on the many fine scumbag politicians to take any positive action... we are stuck on stupid and just waiting hoping wishing the ignorant communist bureaucrats will "allow" us one day to approve our Right for NFA uppers (Lage 10/15 etc.) We don't have millions+ folks saying, hay "elected officials" tell your BS underlings/American Taliban Federation to approve those uppers already etc. We just F'ed and waiting on hell to freeze over by now.

 

[Alaska_Shooter]

They won the game a long time ago when they convinced Americans that approvals were needed for anything 2A. Once we had to ask permission for a right then the writing was on the wall.

 

[Galil#1]

Yes, sad but true. The "convincing" was done via sneak attack by POS turds.

 

[A&S Conversions]

They won the game a long time ago when they convinced Americans that approvals were needed for anything 2A. Once we had to ask permission for a right then the writing was on the wall.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. The whole determination system was set up to avoid litigation. IMHO that is good for both those bringing products firearms and firearm products to market and for the Agency regulating such items. The problem comes when the political ideology slants those who are supposed to enforce the law rather than try to change or make new law to fit the political narrative. I am envious of RBT. I don't have the resources to sue the ATF.

It is my understanding that ATF routinely determined that many products could not come to market. It is my understanding that SIG designed the first pistol brace. The ATF determined that the brace was a stock. SIG sued and the courts determined that the brace had a legitimate use and was not a stock. So Congress put the ATF on notice that determinations should be based on the law. I feel that because the Executive Branch request to ban a firearm related item even though there was nothing illegal about the product and the pressure to do something about an AR-15 lower not having all the features listed in the definition of Firearm Frame or Receiver has pressured the ATF back into their old ways. I think that if the RDT court case goes by the letter of the current law, hopefully that will slap down the ATF and again put pressure on them to base determination on the law as written instead of trying to rewrite the law to fit their political current political climate.

Most Government employees don't really care much about anything political, first amendment, second amendment... They want to do their job well enough and keep their boss happy. If the boss says nothing passes, then you do what you have to do so nothing does pass. If the boss says follow the law as written, then the determination is based on current law as best as you understand it. As far as I know, nothing like our adapter has ever been to market. So I would think that our first submission was run through the legal department. Things change, the boss says nothing passes then poof the aluminum version is a machinegun. Apparently some are not above lying to keep the boss happy. But now all that is "water under the bridge". I can't change the past.

Scott

 

[Galil#1]

= Boss, boss, boss, = the same as Mao Zedong, no difference.
Your just far too nice Scott. These people are not worth a warm bucket of spit.

 

[svtcobra]

All gov agencies run the same. Contractors doing the majority of the work, lower grade civs coming in second, and higher grade civs sitting in meetings all day. All anyone cares about is a promotion, whether that means actually doing work and taking credit for someone else's work is another story.

 

[Galil#1]

Yes God Bless RBT for having the funds to fight these commie bastards!
Hope they sue for millions for something like attempted or conspiracy to violate civil rights (2A)! They must Win!

 

[Galil#1]

You cannot say anything nice about the same goon organization that gave us WACO, Fast & Furious, no one was held accountable for all those needless murders of men, women, and children. RBT should bring that to the courts too whan/if they get their chance...

 

[Chisel]

It doesn’t look like any more uppers will be approved for the MAC. I’m wanting the M11A1 upper, but it was submitted a long time ago.

 

[Galil#1]

Yep Chisel, agree. I would love a 5.56 or 7.62x39 upper for the M10/9 myself. It would take nothing less then Divine Intervention...

 

[sig-x]

You guys think they can’t disapprove a already approved design? It seems like all it takes is some jackass to write a letter.

 

[Galil#1]

Well... the Title II items seems "stable" in that regard; however, the government can never be trusted. IF such BS were to happen, be lots of reported thefts, boating accidents and such IMHO.
One can point to the stupid bump stock ban under Papa Trump as a possible example, but that was never under NFA garbage unconstitutional "law."

 

[Galil#1]

Furthermore, when we have a POS senile stupid puppet in the WH, anything can happen. The $1.5B that scum got via his crackhead worthless son, was the best $$ the miserable rotten chicoms spent. OR his "build back better" program that gave terrorists $80B worth of our military weaponry and a "country" to our enemies... can go on and on and on about that criminal turd in the WH. Smh

 

[Gaujo]

Back to the topic at hand...

Sounds like the last mac upper was 11/15. What about other items that got a letter? What's the latest you know of?