Will M16 values Plummet in the light of Forced Reset Triggers Being Legal

[strobro32]

If you are impressed with a FRT, try a Super Safety. It's mo better. It's more reliable, much cheaper, won't bind with heavy trigger pull and a more simple design.

 

[Deerhurst]

If you are impressed with a FRT, try a Super Safety. It's mo better. It's more reliable, much cheaper, won't bind with heavy trigger pull and a more simple design.

100% this.

I'd love to see M16 prices drop so I can get me one!

 

[edmoore]

Ditto.

I was very close to buying an M16 when I tried the Super Safety. The SS functionality on an AR-15 is very reliable. The 3 position selector works well without thinking about the right force to squeeze the trigger.

I owned a Rare Breed FRT-15 but I did not like concentrating on the trigger and the 2 position got old very quick. It had the tendency of binding if the trigger was squeezed too hard. I sold the RB FRT-15. Even if they released a 3 position, I feel the SS is a better design.

I would like to have a better 22LR option with the SS. I think if the Hughes Amendment was repealed, I would get M16s. For now the SS has squashed any interest in buying a M16.

100% correct. My SS ran just fine out of the box, in both 5.56 and 9mm, using an h3 buffer with both. Compared to my F/A M16 lower, it is actually has more "feel" as I can feel the trigger reset and can control my rate of fire somewhat depending on my trigger squeeze. Run, don't walk, and get a SS ( and extra one and a extra bar or 2) and have fun! The 3 position works great too so when I go to a Fudd Range I just shoot semi except for the occasional double tap on SS. My Rare Breed worked fine but the 2 position was it's limiter. Go with a SS, get it up and running and don't look back. That fella Hoffman who invented this deserves an award.

 

[David Hineline]

STATE RESTRICTIONS AS FOLLOWS: CA, CO, CT, FL, HI, IL, IA, MA, MD, MN, NJ, NY, RI, WA, D.C, PR

 

[GreaseGunner]

That’s a good reference list to have! Thanks

 

[ericthered]

STATE RESTRICTIONS AS FOLLOWS: CA, CO, CT, FL, HI, IL, IA, MA, MD, MN, NJ, NY, RI, WA, D.C, PR

Thank you for the list of states to never consider living in!
Edit: and territory lol

 

[Slowmo]

Thank you for the list of states to never consider living in!
Edit: and territory lol

Most of those are no surprise, but Florida, I would not have guessed.

 

[KickStand]

Most of those are no surprise, but Florida, I would not have guessed.

After that school sh**ting, they enacted some serious guns laws. They even passed an assault weapons ban but they reversed it before they left room. I guess they figured out that they’d all get kicked out of office and immediately re-voted on it.
That being said, they passed an extremely vague gun law that basically said anything that increases the rate of fire, is illegal. Which is so vaguely worded, that it won’t stand up in court. You could argue that a match trigger allows that, a 100 round beta mag and so on. Unfortunately, it hasn’t been challenged yet.

Thankfully, MG’s are still legal.

 

[SecondAmend]

As Ricky used to say, 'Splain sumptin' to me, Lucy. Assuming, arguendo, FRTs, SSS's, and the like are not NFA devices, how is it then, that a Lightning Link is an NFA device? Or is there an argument to declare Lightning Links as non-NFA devices, and remove them from the registry?

 

[Slowmo]

As Ricky used to say, 'Splain sumptin' to me, Lucy. Assuming, arguendo, FRTs, SSS's, and the like are not NFA devices, how is it then, that a Lightning Link is an NFA device? Or is there an argument to declare Lightning Links as non-NFA devices, and remove them from the registry?

FRTs and SSs are not NFA items as a matter of fact. No need to assume it (for the sake of argument or otherwise).

It’s pretty easy to differentiate: the non-NFA items are designed so that the trigger resets between each shot (i.e. one shot per trigger pull) while the LL allows the weapon to continue to fire as long as the trigger is held down without need for it to reset (i.e. multiple shots per trigger pull).

 

[ps90s]

OP, I noticed this posted on other boards, is there more to this?

 

[Renegade]

No. Different consumer markets.

 

[MarkV]

Timex & Casio didn't make Rolex's any cheaper either...

Unfortunately, the internet has greatly accelerated the costs of artificially imposed scarcity. Enjoy what you can while you can.

 

[MitchWerbellsGhost87]

I’m gonna go out on a limb… this might not be the popular opinion, especially amongst those who already invested big bucks in a transferable M16….

But yes I think the SS is going to drastically reduce interest in transferable M16s. People comparing Casios to Rolex’s… it’s not the same. People don’t buy a 20k fancy Rolex just because it can tell the time.. but people buy a 40k vintage M16 just because it shoots faster than a semi auto, and it’s the only option to do so.

There are of course collectors of Vietnam era firearms etc that want an original A1 rifle.. but from what I can see, the vast majority of guys buying the transferable pre-86 guns do literally every single thing they can to make it no longer resemble a classic pre-86 and modernize it with all sorts of modern tactical crap and flat top uppers etc.. kinda like someone buying a Rolex and doing everything they can to make it look more like a Casio.

So the Casio vs Rolex argument is kind of invalid here. This would be like guys who want a Casio being forced to purchase a Rolex because a Casio is illegal, then spray painting the Rolex black and reworking it with a digital watch face.

Bottom line, most guys are buying pre-86 transferables because it’s the only option for a legal full auto, so they settle for the old lower and then modernize it as much as possible, same goes with the MACs… most of the transferable MACs I see getting posted on groups and forums don’t even remotely resemble a MAC anymore. It seems the vast majority of guys buying transferable guns couldn’t care less about its nostalgic collectors value and just want something that goes full auto and are limited to buying classics because of the NFA.

Now they can save 40 grand and get a super safety and drop it in their modern tactical AR platform gun, without having to spend 40k to settle for an old gray A1 profile lower just to have to cerakote it black and replace all the classic colt A1 parts with a flat top upper and MLOK stuff.

The only guys who are still gonna wanna pay 40-50 grand for a pre-86 M16 are the ones who actually appreciate the collectors value of the classic M16A1 and want to keep it all original. Otherwise the vast majority, the guys just looking to shoot at full auto rates of fire, will be opting for the super safety and a modern rifle.

Oh and those DIAS selling for 60k?? Doubt we will see much more of that… I could understand the original colt M16 rifles retaining value because of the collectors, but anyone buying a DIAS is doing so to shoot faster, and now that can be done significantly cheaper.

 

[Galil#1]

Yep some folks will always want the genuine article, historical original real deal... not the wannabe, snowflake, twisted trans, Frank-N-Furter imitations. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[A&S Conversions]

Certainly, a Super Safety is much less clunky than a SlideFire or a trigger cam with a crank. For me it still comes down to the actual function of the trigger. That is why multiple YouTube creators show Super Safety or Forced Reset Triggers fire but not actual full auto. One is registered NFA item and the other isn’t.

You certainly have the right to believe that these devices will cut the legs off the machine gun market values, especially that of the M16 RR values. It is my understanding that the SS/FRTs have been out in the market for years at this point. A quick look on https://www.sturmgewehr.com/forums/index.php?/forum/5-nfa-market-board/ certainly seems as though the market has not heard or is not interested in a SS/FRT as I don’t see anything that looks like a massive drop in market values of machine guns or M16 RRs specifically.

If these devices make you happy, hooray for you. So far as I can see, the market still greatly values transferable machine guns. The only softening of this market that I can see is the coming downturn in the economy. There is certainly a market for these devices. But the SS/FRTs are not going to replace transferable machine guns. These devices, by law, are something else. If these devices were going to effect transferable market values, I would think that the transferable market would have started to drop by now. YMMV.

Scott

 

[slimshady]

There are a lot of people that want a machine gun that can't afford it. These options allow them to have that experience without the cost. I think that's what's driving the market right now for these. The people that can afford machine guns just may not be too interested in these yet. It's so cheap it can't be as good as a real thing. The real thing is an investment. The real thing is historic, etc

 

[strobro32]

I don't think people will stop buying M16s but why would you shoot them and risk wear or damage on your expensive registered lower, when you could have the same fun with an $80 part on an AR15.

 

[MontanaRenegade86]

I was actively looking for a Lightning Link for a couple of years. I missed out on one by a few minutes, and also had a couple of prospects that didn't pan out.

The SuperSafety scratched the M16 itch. The money I had allocated for an M16 can go toward something else, like a FAL or Thompson.

 

[cvasqu03]

Well it won't make a difference in Florida as those triggers are illegal here.

That being said, I can only opine as someone who has never shot either an actual M16 or an AR with one of these triggers. I don't think it will make the prices plummet or even decrease. There's just something about an actual MG that a simulation just doesn't cover. Wanting to experience actual full auto fire is the whole reason all these gadgets that simulate it even exist.

I guess I'd compare it to paying to go on the Vomit Comet to experience simulated weightlessness versus paying (much more) to go into actual outer space. Yes, the sensation may be almost indistinguishable, but it's not actually the same thing, otherwise there wouldn't be a market for space tourism at all.