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  • Range Toy or Plinker (Not a top choice for SHTF)

    306 34.54%
  • Serious Tool I would be comfortable with if SHTF (One of my top choices)

    460 51.92%
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Thread: Semiauto UZI - Serious tool or a Range Toy?

  1. #141
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    Ok,what is the STYF nomination?
    My Sex Life Is Like A Ferrari,I Don't Have A Ferrari.

  2. #142
    Registered User -gunut-'s Avatar
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    I don't know if this has been posted here or not, but it is a good read.

    http://www.frugalsquirrels.com/cgi-b...1;t=044387;p=1

    This is a man that was living in a SHTF type of situation. It is not a definitive answer to SHTF questions but it does lend some insight.

    In there he suggests having a pistol caliber carbine, and a suppressor if you can. I think any firearm can be a Serious tool. It all depends how you use it.

    As he states in there, 99% of the time a pistol is what you will be relying on. That being said, when needing a long arm, having an UZI with a 16" bbl would not be my first choice (probably my AMD-65), but I can see some practical uses for a SBR 9mm with good sub-gun ammo or even a 9mm carbine with a suppressor. They are controllable, hi-cap weapons, that can get the job done within range.

    They are only toys if you make them such IMO

  3. #143
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    -gunnut-

    That was an interesting article. Thanks for taking the time to link it up. Based on how it was written i would take it as fact. The man who wrote it gave one example of what a shtf might be. I think he has some good information. When I posted above, I guess i assumed that everyone already had a pistol or two.

    In quarter bores orginal post he states... "I am curious what the general oppinions of a standard 16-inch semiauto Full Sized UZI is... I am eliminating SBRs and SMGs as I think we can all agree that in NFA configurations they are more practical for HD or potential conflict use...

    So, what is your oppinion of a SemiAuto Vector UZI as from the factory with the 16-inch barrel... Range Plinker or Duty capable tool?"

    I guess he means eliminating sbrs and smgs just for this topic (not from his collection). This is because it is already out classed.

    So based on the question, First is an UZI a pistol or a rifle? An uzi is not a pistol and does not handle like one, this applies to all versions. That being said I always have a pistol. And as I was taught and believe a pistol is for defensive only. Some operators use it for offensive but they are experts and they do this only for a limited purpose. I am one that believes in the idea (that a pistol is used to help get to a shotgun or a rifle).

    A Semi auto UZI is a rifle. Most posts got away from the basic question. Comparing it to other rifles an UZI is out gunned.

    An UZI is more firepower than a pistol. An ar-15 is more than an uzi. A g3 is more than an ar-15. However a g3 is hard to handle and it kicks like a mule. After a mag my shoulder is brused. (A m1a does not kick as bad as a g3, a socom is a nice set up, i do not own one though, I use a SBR M16).

    Is a UZI duty capable. What duty is the question. Clearing a cadillac full of thugs if they are right close, yes. An armored cadillac, no. Hunting a armed fleeing felon through the woods, no. Clearing an apartment, yes. Going up against someone with an ar-15, nope. I like Uzi's but I know its limits. I also know that all guns have limits. They are either to big, to weak, to gassy, to strong or even not accurate enough. I like bullets to hit the same spot. I find just getting the barrel dirty can cause impact to change. I notice this a lot in my hunting rifles and sniper guns.

    So is a UZI a range plinker. Of course. It does a number on cans and metal plates.

    But back to the question is it duty capable. I vote no. One example - If I were on a cold dark street facing two felons with a shotguns and/or pistols hiding behind there car, shooting at me. I would feel under armed. I want a rifle that has more power, better shoulder hook up and I want good sights and maybe even a rail for a laser or light or nv device. Why use an UZI when you can get some thing better for the same amount of money. Would I want to shoot at a badguy with my wife as a hostage in front of him with a uzi. Maybe, but it would be limited. How far would you trust it. 20 yards, 50 yards ?? AK guys ask youself that question also. You guys that brag about hitting plates and torsos at 100 yards with a 9mm, stop misleading people with your bullshi*. A 9mm was not designed to be shot at 100 yards. It is a pistol round that found its way to a smg. Which was designed to outgun a pistol. Not a rifle.

    As to the size issue. An UZI is compact. But it does not take the place of a pistol. It also can not take the place of a rifle. Ar-15s come in many sizes and a shorty is a lot of power. IF you keep it clean like you should it is reilable and bad news. An UZI is a smg. Use it in CQB or in your car. But dont expect a gun in a back pack to do you any good if you need it NOW.

    An UZI might make you feel like a bad ass but would you have wanted it in your hands when the 2 nuts robbed the BOA in CA in the early 90s. That is a real life SHTF.

    Off topic but worth mentioning. If you want a bullet hose consider this A $200.00 mossburg 12 gauage loaded with nine shot buckshot will put more rounds down range faster than an uzi. For those of you that dont get it. Each shot is 9. If your tube holds 7 that would be 9 x 7 is 63. This can be done in about 2 to 3 secs. And normal PD shotgun drills can teach you how to control it.

    Guys keep your UZI's, they are cool. But also dont forget that there are other guns out there. I would look past an AK if you can afford to. They are inaccurate gassy bullet hoses that work but can get you killed. Just ask my friend who was on point. He got shot at and hit. Bad guy thought it was on full auto, he shot and held the trigger. The vest and plate stopped the round, but it knocked him down. Number 2 hosed down the bad guy and stopped the encounter. He said the guy had the look of why is my gun not shooting. Food for thought.

    Merry Christmas all.

  4. #144
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    Lots of opinion there--that is just what it is. Opinion.
    The AK is a "gassy bullet hose"? Please.
    As far as the Shotgun, if I am shooting at a point target at 100 yards, I would rather use my UZI than either of my shotguns loaded with buck. Plus, if you are traveling on foot, how much 12 gauge ammo can you carry?
    My UZI is a 100yard weapon. My AK is a 300 yard weapon. My AR is a 500yard weapon, and my CETME (g3 equivalent) is a 600 yard weapon, and, by the way, does not kick like a mule.
    While the AK or AR would probably be my first choice for the proverbial SHTF, depending on ammo availability, I would use my UZI if needed and know that used within it's limitations, it is very capable.
    God, I can't believe this thread continues, and I got sucked into continuing it.
    Last edited by amd6547; 12-24-2007 at 12:10 AM.

  5. #145
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    GAguy

    I can see where you are coming from and agree with a lot of it.

    What I said above still stands.

    It will get the job done if you need it to. The UZI carbine is a firearm. It can be a range toy if you want to make that designation, but it will still do what it was made to do. That does not mean there are not better options. End of story.

    As for the AK, I can afford better but would still choose this as my go to weapon. Why? The rifle is a hi-cap with mild recoil. I may not be able to acquire a cleaning kit, and in a situation like Katrina it could get very dirty. I need something low maintenance. SP ammunition will get the job done if I do my part. Yes the AK is not as accurate as other rifles, but it is definitely acceptable. Using the shitty sights I can put 3-4" at 100 yards. You could shoot it better with optics, better ammo, etc. Most military engagements happen between 50-150 yards. In a SHTF scenario I am not going to be sniping off guns at 400 or even 300 yards. The rifle's accuracy is acceptable for realistic engagement ranges.

  6. #146
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    ok but what about the model 45 acp carabine uzi ?

    why would this not be the right decider is shtf ?

  7. #147
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    A G3 kicks like a mule??? Dude...find a gym.....

  8. #148
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    -amd6547-

    In response to your comment -- "Lots of opinion there--that is just what it is. Opinion.
    The AK is a "gassy bullet hose"? Please.
    As far as the Shotgun, if I am shooting at a point target at 100 yards, I would rather use my UZI than either of my shotguns loaded with buck. Plus, if you are traveling on foot, how much 12 gauge ammo can you carry?
    My UZI is a 100yard weapon. My AK is a 300 yard weapon. My AR is a 500yard weapon, and my CETME (g3 equivalent) is a 600 yard weapon, and, by the way, does not kick like a mule.
    While the AK or AR would probably be my first choice for the proverbial SHTF, depending on ammo availability, I would use my UZI if needed and know that used within it's limitations, it is very capable...."

    -amd6547- I have read back over many of your posts. The bipod on your a1 is some nice gear. Does that bipod change your point of impact when shooting your rifle.

    As far as your AK comment I challenge you to shoot one full auto keeping your eyes open indexing the sights correctly. Better be wearing goggles. AKs are cheap, and not sealed up so great with the high quality dust cover. Gas and burning gun powder always wants to hit me in the eyes. The round is kick ass up close but the gun is just not quality. Thats goes for all brands makes and models. Including milled recievers and sniper models. They dont impress me. I keep asking my self why in fuc@ you want something made by a bunch of communist. If it were up to me I would melt all of them and put a big FU on them and send the melted pile back to china or russia. In my opinion the only good a AK is a bring back, that a US soldier brought home off a communist. By the way I also think 300 yards is out of range for some of them, but let me guess you just what to hit a 2.5' x 3' target and it never occured to you to hit the bullseye. A rifleman does not want a ak. A CQB guy might but who cares it is off topic. I say SPEND A FEW MORE DOLLARS AND BY AMERICAN.

    I am not sure you have much time on your knock off cetme. Because your statement is incorrect. All 91s and g3s kick pretty good, especially prone, and are hard to control. I bet at 75 yards on FA you cant put more that 1 shot in a target before it does the 1 oclock bounce. Most 91s, which are probably all semi unless you have a NFA trigger pack, i have shot seem to have more kick and are harder to control than a rem 700.

    As to a shotgun with buck shot, it would be a good crowd clearer at 100 yards, good slugs will change the results. I have seen them take a deer out at that yardage and trust me when i say a 9mm does not compare. IF i may suggest a book for you. Read The Five Fingers. It is about 5 or so guys in nam, it might open you eyes a little more to the old 12 gauges you have. Number 4s and bb shot can really mess a face and eyes up. It is great weapon for up close. I dont suggest that is my shtf weapon but i would think it might be better than a semi UZI 16".

    By the way I am glad you pointed out that my Opinion is just opinion. I dont think anyone Knew that. I bet my ass your 100 yard pistol shooting is something to see. I would like to see a video of you doing that. Do you shoot at index cards? OR maybe whole pie plates.
    Shi* i bet you think the trajectory of 9 mm and 308 are the same. JK.

    Look forward to reading your reply.

  9. #149
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    No, I have no experiance with FA weapons of any description.
    My Yugo UF AK, semi auto, fired with all due regard for proper rifle practice (trigger control, breathing control, sight alignment) will place five rounds in the bullseye of a 25yard NRA pistol target at 100 yards--about a 2.5 inch group. At 300 yards, it will hit a 1 foot by 1 foot metal plate every time. That is accurate enough for me. It has worked 100%, mags and ammo are cheap, and is a compact effective piece of firepower that many good Americans own--as far as I am concerned, America would be a better place if every honest home in the country had one and a pile of ammo plus the skill and wherewithal to use them. It would make me quite happy to see a range in every neighborhood holding monthly AK/sks matches attended by every able bodied individual who could.
    I have put about 500 rounds through my CETME in every position..standing, seated, prone--I find it to be very soft shooting, though admittedly, it has the US muzzle break, not a G3 flash hider.
    I have no doubt that the 12 gauge slug is effective at 100 yards, and that 12 gauge buck is great for spraying at crowds at the same distance. The UZI, however is quite accurate at 100 yards, holds 32rounds, is more compact, and has a pretty low muzzle signature with the 16 inch barrel.
    I do shoot my pistols at 100 yards. I do backpacking and sea kayaking, and often, a handgun is the only weapon I bring. I have always felt that most full-size service handguns have a longer useful range than most users take advantage of, and that the ability to place rounds at 100 yards might come in handy, when it is the only weapon you have. Many times, I just pick out features on the berm at 100 yards, and shoot at them, and you might be surprised at how close you can come at 100 yards, if you havn't tried it. I did shoot for group with my Walther P1 9mm, and was amazed at the results. I was shooting at the same NRA 25yard pistol bullseye my club provides at the 100 yard rifle range, seated, using an improvised rest. I used the Elmer keith method of holding half the front sight over the top of the rear sight, and placing the bullseye on top of the front sight. Five out of eight shots were in the black--the other three were an inch or two outside. Certainly, all eight would have hit a bad guy in the torso. The Walther has excellent sights, and a terrific trigger, and seems to fit my hand well.
    I don't understand why this has to be such a heated arguement--we all make our choices, and what you choose makes no difference to me, beyond the fact that the best SHTF strategy is probably not the lone rifleman roaming the countryside surviving on his wits and large caliber long range shooting ability. The best SHTF strategy most likely would be an affinity group of like minded neighbors looking out for each other, banding together for mutual self defence, and using a combination of all the weapons named in this very long thread, covering situations from point blank to 1000 yards. The main thing is to shoot what you have, use it to it's maximum capablility, and buy lots of ammo, as well as all the other survival needs that you will not be strolling down to Walmart for.

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9mmsubgun-m11
    Ok,what is the SHTF nomination?
    Shit Hits The Fan

    SHTF could be many things... Riots (LA Riots come to mind), national disaster (Katrina as an example), home invasion, terrorist attack (we have not seen what could happen), Talaban invasion of your small town... Anything where your life is put on it's head and you may need to defend yourself and nobody else is going to be there to help you and you need to defend yourself, your family, your property and perhaps use your firearms to obtain food as well...

    My 1st choice as a SHTF weapon is a 16-inch barreled AR-15 Midlength with a 5.56 chamber and a 1:7 twist. I have plenty of other guns but this is the Swiss Army knife inn my own big toolbox that I would trust my life to in at least 80% of the situations I can imagine ever happening. The rest could likely be handled better with either a 308 long range rifle (AR-10T) or a short ranged subgun (MAX-11) better.

    It is funny that I would trust my MAX-11 over my full sized UZI SMG as a year ago I would ever had listed the M11/9 as one of the top guns I have for anything but creating empty brass. These days however, I really have that much confidence in my MAX-11. Amazing how the MAX-11 upper changed things!
    Last edited by Quarterbore; 12-26-2007 at 01:10 PM.

  11. #151
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    Stay Safe,
    Glockdude1.........................

    "If War is HELL, Take a better Pitchfork than the DEVIL!!!"

  12. #152
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    Ok,what is the STYF nomination?

    I think he wanted to know what the STYF is.

    I have no idea.

  13. #153
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    -timeinspace-

    45acp is nice. However it still is under powered compared to most rifle rounds. It would be nice surpressed in a FA or SBR. But it is still a close up round. Just like the 9mm.

    Maybe -amd6547- could give us some practical shooting lessons on how to hit with our pistols and uzis at 100 yards. Based on his bench shooting, I think he is an expert. Matter of fact I think all the police departments around town are going to start qualifing from the benchrest. From what I hear we want be able shoot bad guys from now on unless we are using the bench.


  14. #154
    Registered User -gunut-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAguy
    45acp is nice. However it still is under powered compared to most rifle rounds. It would be nice surpressed in a FA or SBR. But it is still a close up round. Just like the 9mm.

    Maybe -amd6547- could give us some practical shooting lessons on how to hit with our pistols and uzis at 100 yards. Based on his bench shooting, I think he is an expert. Matter of fact I think all the police departments around town are going to start qualifing from the benchrest. From what I hear we want be able shoot bad guys from now on unless we are using the bench.

    Have you done much pistol shooting at 100 yards?

    Using my HK tac .45 I can consistently hit bowling pins within one to two rounds, while standing un-supported. I was surprised how easy I could make shots with that pistol! I have no tried it with any others, though. I brought a buddy along the last time and he was getting about 1 in 10-15 with a Glock 22. He doesn't have much pistol shooting experience though. He could out shoot me any day with a rifle.

    If I can do that with a pistol I would believe what he says about the UZI. A shoulder fired weapons should be easier as long as the weapon system is accurate, which it seems the UZI is.

    ETA My carry load for my HK is Hornady 200gr +P. They list their 200 gr going around 926FPS at 100 yards. With quality .45 or 9mm ammunition you can still have some very decent power at 100 yards if you can hit what you are aiming at.

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    What is needed for accurate hits at 100 yards with a pistol is a good improvised field rest, such as seated against a treetrunk or rock, knees up, wrists rested on knees. From there, it is a matter of, again, sight alignment, breathing control, and trigger control.
    I started this practice after reading history, which shows that cavalrymen of the last century were pretty dangerous at long range using their Colt 45 peacemakers, and from reading Elmer Keith, the godfather of long-range sixgunning. While shooting a 9mm at 100 yards is not the same as shooting a 44mag, the principals are the same.
    I often read posts from individuals who believe a pistol is inaccurate beyond typical self defence ranges. There are those who never shoot beyond 10 yards, let alone 25 or 50 yards. A good quality service handgun will surprise you with what it is capable of if the proper technique is used.
    When you put the same 9mm load through a 16 inch barrel and add a shoulder stock and decent aperture sights, 100 yard hits are comparatively easy. I once put 50 rounds of cheap UMC FMJ through a HiPoint 9mm carbine at 100 yards, firing as fast as I could pull the trigger and reload the three 10 round mags I had---all the rounds were on a standard silouette target. This was using a cheap BSA red dot scope. That same HiPoint carbine would shoot one hole groups the size of a bottle cap at 50 yards when care was taken in shooting.
    No one doubts that a rifle caliber weapon such as an AK or AR is a more suitable 100 yard weapon. But, I certainly would not volunteer to stand in the open at 100yards and be the target for someone who knows how to shoot either their 9mm pistol, or carbine. Would you??

  16. #156
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    Saw an old man a few years ago shooting clay pigeons at 100-yards with a Smith and Wesson 12-2. I watched him shoot 16 for 18. I for one would not have wanted to be anywhere near where he was shooting.....

    That said, I really need to update my pics, but I would not want to be anywhere on the other end of my Uzi either...This is 100 yards and my results are similar at 200. Whether or not it's the "first choice" for a SHTF scenario is dependent on the situation, but I certainly would not want to be on the other end of someone armed with one....

  17. #157
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    100 yards

    I have never implied that shooting a pistol at 100 yards is not possible.
    I qualified every time with a 40cal at 100%. Night, day and in rain.
    I have shot under stress and in competition at 50 yards with a 45 acp glock.
    I can take a K22 masterpiece and light a match. I do not consider myself an expert but others would.

    Shooting pistols at 100 yards is a slow process from aiming to squeezing. It could be done as a last resort in a cirsis. It is not practical, I just think that some people are less educated and not as fimilar with shooting. Why tell them it is so great when it is not. I don't think I could hit at 100 yards weak hand, no support, no matter what. To me you are only as good as your weakness. So we practice weak hand, strong hand, etc.

    Any one shooting an UZI should be able to hit at 100 yards. So what. Not all the rounds will hit the center bull and that can make the difference between a dead hostage or the bad guy. It is a SMG. It seems that the guys that own UZIs with the 16" barrels forget its intended purpose. It was not designed as a 100 yard + weapon. Pistols are also not intended to shoot at 100 yards. Does this mean it will not kill at that distance, no. They fit a different role better. Try to focus on the point of topic. Is a 16" UZI duty fit or a range plinker? As a duty weapon to a modern solider or officer, no way.

    Ruhrogeorge how is it possible that the results of your groups are the same at 100 and 200 yards? and Who wants to be on the receiving end of anything dangerous. Yall act like standing in front of a moving car or a bullet is the way to prove that it does not work.

  18. #158
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    Cool It's All In The Thumb Grasshopper....

    Quote Originally Posted by GAguy
    Ruhrogeorge how is it possible that the results of your groups are the same at 100 and 200 yards?
    Ummm...I flip the rear sight to 200 and squeeze the trigger....

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    You certainly have implied that 100 yard pistol shooting, as well as pistol caliber carbine shooting is a waste of time.
    I am neither a "modern soldier or officer", nor am I suggesting taking a one shot/one kill hostage saving shot with my UZI or pistol at 100 yards.
    I am merely stating that the weapons are capable of hitting at that range.
    I feel like I am arguing with a child here. I am 50 years old, and have been shooting since I was five. I believe in using every weapon I own to it's maximum capability, and I definately do not own "range toys"--I simply cannot afford to own I weapon that I do not believe has a role in my self defence arsenal.
    SMG's certainly are designed for CQB, but their designers have always envisioned their use at ranges longer than CQB. Hence the flip sight on the UZI. My personal UZI is zeroed for 100 yards.
    I say again, and for the final time, we all make our choices, and hopefully, in a SHTF scenario, will work together for mutual defence, using what we bring to the party to maximize the groups offensive and defensive capability.
    I'm through with this thread.

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuhRoRorge
    Ummm...I flip the rear sight to 200 and squeeze the trigger....
    +1

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