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Thread: New ar15 trigger slap inducing full auto simulator.

  1. #1
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    New ar15 trigger slap inducing full auto simulator.

    You thought braces and binaries were pushing the envelope, then check this bad boy out. I love the innovation but I don’t think it will be long for this world. Out of the box thinking none the less.

    https://vimeo.com/486478480
    Last edited by Mackjack; 12-18-2020 at 05:27 PM.

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    Agreed. Every one of these high-tech 'coathangers' brings us one step closer to another 'bumpstock redetermination' event.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

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    Isn't it interesting that the lawyer claims that he feels that the trigger is legal. They hired a couple of former Tech Branch employees that have the opinion that the trigger is legal. But they don't seem to have a determination letter for the trigger. Could this be legal by the letter of the law? I would think so. But just like the bump stock, I can see this product being banned because it makes a semi automatic AR fire faster. Because the trigger will allow function as fast as mechanically possible, unlike a binary trigger, the trigger can't be manipulated faster than the mechanism.

    It does seem that this trigger could mimic full auto function. Of course I would think that the trigger would need light pressure to to function. The higher the pressure on the trigger greater the resistance to releasing off the safety sear. An auto sear actually releases the hammer just before the bolt is in battery such that the firing pin is struck just as the bolt carrier hits the barrel extension to minimize bolt bounce. Of course such precise timing is difficult for production. Is the carrier dry or oily? How dirty is the gun? How strong or weak is the recoil spring? So an M16 RR would need a heavier buffer and timing that could handle this variation.

    The bump stock needed a certain amount of forward pressure from the support hand for function. Push forward too hard, the gun won't recoil back far enough to reset the trigger. Not enough pressure forward and the gun is not pushed forward enough to push the gun into the trigger finger resting on the stock. I would think that this trigger would have similar function. There would need to be enough pressure on the trigger for function, but not too much pressure to slow function of the rifle.

    With the Technology Branch basically shutting down while they figure out what exactly "is" a firearm. And the huge change in direction that a pistol brace now seems to be a stock requiring SBR registration. Also the new administration wants all non sporting configurations to be under the National Firearms Act including magazines of a capacity over 10 rounds. I don't see this trigger getting a determination that this trigger is a firearm accessory instead of a machinegun conversion device. That is just my opinion. I think this is an innovative trigger system. How long it would be on the market will be until someone writes a letter or the Government is notified by someone doing something very bad. Who knows. YMMV.

    Scott
    Last edited by A&S Conversions; 12-19-2020 at 10:14 AM.

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    Looks cool - seems legal
    My guess, ATF will claim it is MG, raid them, confiscate everything -> bankrupt company, problem solved...
    LOL, no public determination letter required...

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    Next they’ll be banning the Semi M11/9 with trigger slap.

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    The real question; is the risk low enough at $400 on the off-chance they put the kibosh on manufacturing but the already built triggers get grandfathered in (a la pre nov. 81 DIAS)? You could imagine how valuable these would become overnight if that happened!

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    They didn't grandfather the bumpstocks or Atkins Acceloators.

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    I could be wrong but I don't think Franklin Arms has a letter for their binary triggers. Scour their website and you finds words to the effect 'legal because one pull, one action'. You'll get the same words if you ask someone on the phone.

    Also note that all Franklin Arms binary triggers have a serial number on the package and hammer. You'd best assume that at some point they will become contraband.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottinTexas View Post
    You'd best assume that at some point they will become contraband.
    The binary triggers already are illegal in several states. Because these products were produced post '86, if they are determined to be a machinegun, private individuals will not be allowed to possess them just like the other two products previously mentioned.

    Scott

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    That's not going to fly.

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    Super cool, interesting, and highly innovative. With that being said, I'd be nervous as hell to use one at a range that wasn't 100% private and far, far away from everyone in fear of being hassled by people, especially including those with badges. Using one in a registered SBR may help deflect some trouble, as you have "paperwork" for such an exotic weapon that may ward off problem people to request a peek.

    I'm fairly certain the ATF wouldn't let this fly, if they were to evaluate it at their no-fun-for-you facility.

    As far as it being legal, it appears so under a reasonable interpretation of the law. But unfortunately, that doesn't seem to matter these days. (Bumpstocks)

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    I see from their website that you have to use it with a heavy buffer (H2, H3 or T3)
    Now hosting: www.MAC-11.info

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    Logically legal. ATF is not logical. It’s a machine gun conversion with a shitty trigger. Buy one and expect to get a visit from the ATF.
    Live BRAVE, Live FREE!

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    I’m buying one when available. If I have to turn it in later so be it.

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    Seems like a Franklin Armory trigger is better.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

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    Will this effect M16 or RDIAS/rLL prices if this doesn’t get banned? It’s basically simulating full auto fire while technically still being semi auto. I’m in the market for a M16 but I might hold off.

    I’m also curious if Full Auto prices will drop slightly due to the ammo shortage?

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    It's already illegal in Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chisel View Post
    Will this effect M16 or RDIAS/rLL prices if this doesn't get banned? It's basically simulating full auto fire while technically still being semi auto. I'm in the market for a M16 but I might hold off.
    It won't have any more effect on Full Auto than the binary triggers have had.
    Now hosting: www.MAC-11.info

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    Quote Originally Posted by TSPC View Post
    It's already illegal in Florida.
    by way of FL law or...?

  20. #20
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    It's an interesting concept, however:
    1) Accuracy would suffer (as my Screen Name suggests, I place a premium there!)
    2) Trigger Slap is painful (the "Mini MAC MPA 9mm I used to own had a "Condom" on the Trigger because of "slap";
    3) IF the BATFE ever rules against this Product, it could be a very dangerous precident against multiple Firearms, Including most AKs.
    Last edited by sniperdoc; 02-21-2021 at 07:20 AM.

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