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Thread: New ar15 trigger slap inducing full auto simulator.

  1. #21
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    So if I bought this and installed it in my RR M-16, could they take it away if ATF claims it is a machine gun?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by theduke View Post
    by way of FL law or...?
    Banned by Florida law. When Florida banned bump stocks the statute defined a bump stock as: “a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire …” It applies to binary triggers as well.

    Full text is below.

    790.222 Bump-fire stocks prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a bump-fire stock. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, the term “bump-fire stock” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TSPC View Post
    Banned by Florida law. When Florida banned bump stocks the statute defined a bump stock as: “a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire …” It applies to binary triggers as well.

    Full text is below.

    790.222 Bump-fire stocks prohibited.—A person may not import into this state or transfer, distribute, sell, keep for sale, offer for sale, possess, or give to another person a bump-fire stock. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. As used in this section, the term “bump-fire stock” means a conversion kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device used to alter the rate of fire of a firearm to mimic automatic weapon fire or which is used to increase the rate of fire to a faster rate than is possible for a person to fire such semiautomatic firearm unassisted by a kit, a tool, an accessory, or a device.
    This law is so poorly written.
    Don’t put any trigger in your gun that’s got a lighter trigger pull, shorter reset or adjustable over travel.


    Oh and don’t do a homemade trigger job (springs and or file). It’s likely no one would get convicted but who really knows in left leaning counties. Thankfully there’s a lot of gun sanctuary (Red) counties in Florida.


    You live in south Florida, SOOOOOO.


    I could be wrong but aren’t these triggers made in Florida? (Lol)

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KickStand View Post
    This law is so poorly written.
    Don’t put any trigger in your gun that’s got a lighter trigger pull, shorter reset or adjustable over travel.


    Oh and don’t do a homemade trigger job (springs and or file). It’s likely no one would get convicted but who really knows in left leaning counties. Thankfully there’s a lot of gun sanctuary (Red) counties in Florida.


    You live in south Florida, SOOOOOO.


    I could be wrong but aren’t these triggers made in Florida? (Lol)

    The company is headquartered in Orlando but I believe the triggers are manufactured and shipped from Utah.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighriseATX View Post
    So if I bought this and installed it in my RR M-16, could they take it away if ATF claims it is a machine gun?
    No that ironically would be fine. You’re making One FA lower fire in FA.
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  6. #26
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    2-3 available on GB.

    This one closed today. $1325

    https://www.gunbroker.com/item/889053821

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rybread View Post
    No that ironically would be fine. You’re making One FA lower fire in FA.
    Seems more probable that the BATF would declare the device itself a MG, contraband and illegal. No different than a bumpstock on an FA lower.

    Your lower would remain legal, the parts and pieces illegal.

    Same would be true if one put a Franklin binary in a registered lower and the Franklin triggers become contraband. Surrender the Franklin parts or go directly to Club Fed.
    My name is actually Scott and I really do live in Texas.

    I know, not very creative but it is factual.

    By the way - Facebook is truly evil; resist the urge to participate.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rybread View Post
    No that ironically would be fine. You’re making One FA lower fire in FA.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScottinTexas View Post
    Seems more probable that the BATF would declare the device itself a MG, contraband and illegal. No different than a bumpstock on an FA lower.

    Your lower would remain legal, the parts and pieces illegal.

    Same would be true if one put a Franklin binary in a registered lower and the Franklin triggers become contraband. Surrender the Franklin parts or go directly to Club Fed.
    Scott is correct IMHO. Like a DIAS, the FATD has ruled that a DIAS is a machinegun in and of itself. So if you had a DIAS in a properly done registered receiver M16, according to them that is two machineguns. It doesn't matter how many firearms seems to be functioning. As with the XMG upper, which is a firearm and must be transferred via 4473, a registered receiver machinegun is a firearm. The XMG upper and a M16 RR are one unit with one barrel. But to the FATD, that is two firearms shooting automatically with only one registration.

    Now there is the whole unaltered semi automatic receiver that was registered as a registered receiver machinegun that uses a collection of parts (including an unregistered DIAS). The FATD has ruled that a M16 conversion has the hole for the USGI auto sear. So such a conversion is improper. Of course there are lots of improper conversions in the registry. The BATF&E doesn't have the means or funding to straighten out the registry. But if a specific machinegun that was converted this way were to come to their attention, that could be very problematic for the owner.

    So this trigger, if considered a machinegun conversion device, is separate from the issue of a M16 RR. So even if it seems like there is only one barrel shooting automatically, that doesn't mean that there is only one firearm, or regulated part. YMMV.

    Scott

  9. #29
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    Anyone concerned about the ATF coming over for a visit in response to someone allegedly buying one of these drop in "cassette" triggers, presumably after they obtained sales records, just don't answer the door and/or don't communicate with them in any way.

    I highly doubt they could get a search warrant based on the above alone.

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    Especially if it was bought with a pre-paid VISA card (bought with cash) and was sent to the vacant house 2 blocks over by mistake...

  11. #31
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    Folks, I bought one FRT15 and after having used the others out there .
    The other triggers have a learning curve but this
    one shoots like a house on fire right away.What was neat was how easy it was to drop in one unit that
    contains hammer,trigger and disco
    I then installed a 9mm on my AR lower using those magazines that are 9mm but go in a regular
    AR15 magwell. The ease of operation was awesome. Then when i used it on a suppressed upper
    and what i fail to understand is how the
    cyclic rate really increased and i didnt seem to have to manipulate the trigger.
    When its warmer I will take videos and post

    Also on the bump stocks, ATF used the language for redefining a machinegun is continuous fire
    "without trigger manipulation" which killed the bump stocks but let all the echo triggers and the like
    on safe ground. The FRT triggers are $375 and are going for crazy money on GB now for $1000-1100
    and people are paying that.

    ALso the company said that they dont have a determination letter from ATF but their legal dept says its "legal"

    I thought these companies had to send a gun with their device in order to get a determination letter.
    Maybe they figure they can rathole the profits and if deemed illegal they are ahead of the game
    Last edited by Haris1; 01-21-2021 at 06:57 PM.
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  12. #32
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    I got the chance to play with one today. I can definitively say there is no trigger slap with the FRT. It is a one trick pony. Burst fire or mag dumps are easy but it's not great at precision shots.

    I'm glad I did not buy it or own one.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by strobro32 View Post
    Burst fire or mag dumps are easy but it's not great at precision shots.
    I have ARs for set up for precision, and then I have other ARs for different types of fun... I've had bump-fire ARs, and currently have a bag/take-down AR, a full auto/3-round burst gun, a few binary trigger guns, and now one FRT-15 gun. They're each different animals.
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  14. #34
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  15. #35
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    I saw that video, though it looks easy enough to change out the spring from time to time even if Rare Breed doesn’t “fix” the design. Might also be able to use a different spring that is less prone to that bend-set.

    By the way, I had a chance to try one a few days ago. There was no noticeable trigger slap at all... it was quite comfortable and fun to shoot. Easy to do doubles, not as easy to do singles. I’d want this in a dedicated AR. Unlike binary triggers, there’s no way to switch to “standard” semi-auto firing.
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  16. #36
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    I was thinking in the sear recess and it’s opposing housing recess you could fabricate round faced plungers that have the springs behind them. Acts like two ball pivots, problem solved.

  17. #37
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    A dedicated AR would be a good idea concord.

    For those who are planning to buy one, here's some personal experience. My friend bought two of the FRT triggers. We installed them in our guns. The one in my gun works great but his has been nothing but problems. We swapped parts all day long but his just wound not work. He experienced the same problem as this video I posted below.

    This triggers are a crap shoot and maybe you will get lucky. Many people are having the same problem. The trigger that was in my gun is already is seeing the spring crunch.



    Here's a video I made where you can see how the reset paddle is crushing the spring.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/40775099@N03/50927722797/

  18. #38
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    I haven't even opened mine yet. I'm sure it's fun, but I'm tempted to sell it as it's brand new and could double my money and put that extra money towards a transferable Colt.

    I'll sit on it for a while longer. I love my Colts (all 3 of mine are semi auto) but can't bring myself to try this out just yet.

  19. #39
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    Ok ..3rd weekend with the FRT.

    We put a carbine spring and 5oz Buffer in his PSA pistol lower. It worked much better. That + teaching him not to hold the trigger with so much force. The slow motion bolt is definitely the result of holding down the trigger with too much force. An easy fix would be to remove some material from the top corner of the hammer, or just slightly round it off so it can not drag on the bottom of the bolt.

    He hates the FRT now as he has to think about trigger control instead of focusing on the target.

    I have new paddle springs on order and I plan to sell my trigger soon. It's just not my thing.

    He wants to experiment on his trigger. He wants me to modify his FRT to have paddle not crunch the paddle spring. That may be as easy as radius the bottom of the paddle where it contacts the paddle spring. We should also radius the top of the hammer to see if we can improve the contact with the bottom of the bolt.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by strobro32 View Post
    Ok ..3rd weekend with the FRT.

    We put a carbine spring and 5oz Buffer in his PSA pistol lower. It worked much better. That + teaching him not to hold the trigger with so much force. The slow motion bolt is definitely the result of holding down the trigger with too much force. An easy fix would be to remove some material from the top corner of the hammer, or just slightly round it off so it can not drag on the bottom of the bolt.

    He hates the FRT now as he has to think about trigger control instead of focusing on the target.

    I have new paddle springs on order and I plan to sell my trigger soon. It's just not my thing.

    He wants to experiment on his trigger. He wants me to modify his FRT to have paddle not crunch the paddle spring. That may be as easy as radius the bottom of the paddle where it contacts the paddle spring. We should also radius the top of the hammer to see if we can improve the contact with the bottom of the bolt.
    After your video I am not convinced I want to mess with it. I thought it was interesting if it worked at advertised. It’s kinda like the tact trigger I saw advertised for years it takes a special touch that only a few can accomplish. I think it is just going to be another example of expensive junk to just get hacked off at. I hope I am wrong
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