Ever have any problems with non-IMI barrels?

[Dirk Hawthorne]

I bought a NIB full auto Vector and had the welds pop and fixed.

I sold off the south african bolt and barrel to a collector who wanted them.

So now I have a BWE barrel made by ???? who knows, a US Barrel Shrouds "gigantic chamber funnel" barrel made by ???? who knows, and I recently acquired a surplus IMI.

The IMI barrel I paid $200 for and used an electronic bore cleaner on it because it was heavily fouled. It's a real turd, turns out it has a dark bore with some actual pitting. I love paying $200 for a $50 barrel. It's neato. Big fun.

Anyway, ll three barrels shoot great. Like 4 or 5 inch groups at 25 yards. Probably would shoot better than that if I held the UZI steadier.

So I'm wondering if anyone ever bought an UZI barrel and had problems with it. If my skank-tastic IMI barrel shot good when it was caked with fouling and pitted to boot, I wonder if UZI accuracy is limited by the barrel or some other factor, like the barrel vibrating around in the trunnion.

 

[arch stanton]

If I am reading you right. The BWE barrel was made by Richard. I believe he made all his own barrels. What barrel is giving you problems? The barrel vibrating in the trunnion I doubt it.

 

[Remo Williams 1]

The only barrel I had an issue with was a Green Mountain Mini Uzi barrel. The round went to far into the barrel and the fixed firing pin could not reach.
My Mini is a Vector and all IMI and all Barrel X Change have been flawless.

 

[CKxx]

I don't follow why you'd sell off the barrel and bolt that belonged to the gun? Did you accuracy test that original barrel?

I've had better luck accuracy testing open-bolt gun while standing vs. trying to rest them and deal with the "jump."

 

[Dirk Hawthorne]

If I am reading you right. The BWE barrel was made by Richard. I believe he made all his own barrels. What barrel is giving you problems? The barrel vibrating in the trunnion I doubt it.

what I wrote is confusing.

I have 3 barrels from very different sources, including an IMI with a skanky bore, and they all seem to shoot great.
so it lead me to wonder if there is even such a thing as a bad UZI barrel. Has anyone ever reported having a bad barrel?

also, on a side note, the accuracy of an UZI is probably not governed or limited by the barrel quality the way it is in a bolt action rifle. The weak point is probably the looseness of the barrel fit in the trunnion. When guns are fired, they vibrate like a tuning fork and the more uniformly they vibrate, the more accurate they are.

 

[Dirk Hawthorne]

The only barrel I had an issue with was a Green Mountain Mini Uzi barrel. The round went to far into the barrel and the fixed firing pin could not reach.
My Mini is a Vector and all IMI and all Barrel X Change have been flawless.

did green mountain make good on it?

 

[Dirk Hawthorne]

I don't follow why you'd sell off the barrel and bolt that belonged to the gun? Did you accuracy test that original barrel?

I've had better luck accuracy testing open-bolt gun while standing vs. trying to rest them and deal with the "jump."

The guy who bought my south african barrel and bolt off me was filthy rich and offered me a stupid amount of money. I forget how much it was, but it was plenty. I want to say $400 but I don't really recall, it was like 10 years ago.

He wanted them because he had spent time in south africa. He didn't even have an UZI. It was just one of those weird things.

Vector UZIs are not "collectable." They are an aftermarket franken-gun with no collector cachet. You will not devalue them a single cent by swapping parts. You should definitely keep the box and paperwork and everything, because gun buyers are slap-happy about that stuff, but nobody is ever going to give a flying eff if you have an Israeli or SA bolt in your Vector.

I had a milled feed ramp installed in mine without a second thought.

Now, if you have a Winchester Garand with all the original Winchester parts in it, you will devalue it by 70% if you swap parts out of it.

 

[Remo Williams 1]

did green mountain make good on it?

No they did not. I bought the barrel when I first purchased the Mini Uzi, but it took 14 months to approve. They said my window to return was only like 1 month.

 

[regalgseguy]

The Greem Mtn barrel I had would not work with WWB ammo.

 

[Dirk Hawthorne]

The Greem Mtn barrel I had would not work with WWB ammo.

how so?

 

[BobMG]

how so?

Green Mountain even has a disclaimer on their website that “some” people had issues with Winchester White Box. I had both mini and full size, rounds would frequently get stuck in the chamber a little too far causing a light primer strike and not fire, then very difficult to remove. We’re talking a couple screwdrivers hooked under the lip and prying against the barrel to remove the unfired round from the chamber. It appeared the shell would go past the chamber and actually begin to engage rifling.

I disagree with the generalization about Vectors collectability… they are what they are, and certainly collectable to some extent. Prices have climbed accordingly similar to more collectable MGs. I doubt advertising a Vector for sale with all IMI parts would be an advantage… my .02

 

[K2]

Hi All,

Disclaimer: Things may have changed in the last few years.

Back 20 years ago WWB was the go-to, inexpensive 9mm ammo to test SMGs. Everyone could find it and it was of reasonable quality. Then about 4-5 years ago:

In a conversation with Richard/BWE Firearms, he indicated he was having difficulty with Winchester White Box 9mm. It seems that the mouth of the cartridge was smaller in diameter than SAAMI spec. In other words where the brass ends on the case the diameter was outside the range and smaller than what SAAMI specified. Sure enough, I measured several rounds from my stash and found the same issue.

With that said, if the freebore cut with the chambering reamer is at the high end of the tolerance range, the WWB can fail to catch the end of the chamber and stop in the tapered portion of the lead to the rifling. This is likely what has been experienced above with WWB .

Richard stopped using WWB as the "standard" for testing SMG's.

As usual, YMMV,

K2

 

[Galil#1]

^^^^^^^^^
So... S&B 230gr. round nose for the win? What is considered "good" SMG ammo now? Thanks for sharing K2!

Sorry my bad was thinking .45 ACP

 

[MGMAN45]

I only use 124gr NATO in my smgs.IMI,Winchester,GECO.Bought 30,000 rnds of IMI years ago.Starting to run low on that.Forgot to mention MEN9B works well also.

 

[Dirk Hawthorne]

I've never had any problem with ANY bulk ammo in my UZI, aside from that aluminum stuff, which FTEs.

Regarding collectability of Vectors -

Collectability of anything is due to the IMAGINATION of the collectors. Interest in history fires up collector interest in objects.

If someone has a penny from 1865, it's worth $19. If it can be shown that it was in Lincoln's pocket when he was killed, now it's $19,000. If it was in President McKinley's pocket when he was assassinated, it's worth $29.

There is no magic to it - the more dramatic the history, the more collector interest.

Old hardware store shotguns don't have any collector value, because nobody cares about some farmer plunking down $12 for some off-brand shotgun and shooting at crows with it. There is no drama there.

Collector value is different from shooter value.

The story of how Vectors were assembled from South African parts is nifty, but there is NO collector value there. There is $20k of value there as a transferrable UZI, but it's shooter value.

All of these clones and conversions and bolt guns are just "shooters." Because there is no imagination and emotion there.

Nobody is going to say, "Wow, some guy in Philadelphia converted this IMI semi-auto to full auto in 1983. You can just feel the history as you touch it. That historic moment when he took that metal file and started hacking away brings tears to my eyes. And I even have the wrapper for the cheese steak he ate that day!"

The only UZI SMGs that are going to command collector value are factory IMI UZI smgs, and in that case mostly because they are rare as hen's teeth.

 

[Dirk Hawthorne]

So the moral of the story is - swap as many parts into your clone or conversion as you like. Nobody is ever going to care.

Sure it's worth $20k now, but it's going to be a "shooter" right up until the day that an ATF guy puts it into a furnace. (After the Democrats load the USA up with enough poor immigrants to turn the USA into a one-party state.)

 

[BobMG]

So the moral of the story is - swap as many parts into your clone or conversion as you like. Nobody is ever going to care.

Sure it's worth $20k now, but it's going to be a "shooter" right up until the day that an ATF guy puts it into a furnace. (After the Democrats load the USA up with enough poor immigrants to turn the USA into a one-party state.)

Your opinions are clear… and I have no issue with that, but the moral is - swap as many parts as YOU like, I don’t mind.

I happen to find the Group Industries involvement fascinating, they saw the ban coming and had the insight at the time to manufacture as many as they could, but was unable to finish them, then the auction, then Ralph’s struggle with obtaining parts… this is all history that some might find more interesting then you… it’s ok.

 

[Dirk Hawthorne]

I'm not making a grand pronouncement of my personal tastes and pretending that I represent the whole world, because I'm such a big hero and grand swami of all known wisdom.

I'm making an assessment of the gun collecting market as a whole, based on decades of observing that market.

Like I said, the story of how Vectors came into existence is interesting to some people (like you and I), but it will absolutely not light up the brain synapses of collector-minded people as a broad group.

There is simply not enough historical radioactivity there for the collector market to care about. Having some guy in Philly punch out some flats in 1985 and then them being eventually built into guns in 2001 is not a grand enough story to be of any interest to collectors.

There is hardly any difference between a 1968 Mustang and a 1988 Mustang. They are both old cars that were purchased by some college kid who graduated and got his first job and bought a cool car. But to collectors, one car represents an iconic, colorful period of wild American youth culture and car culture and the other one doesn't. One car says Woodstock and Jimi Hendrix, and the other one says hammer pants.

If I put my Vector up for sale on gunbroker, I'd get the same price with or without the original barrel and bolt. Because only a tiny sprinkling of buyers would care, and a sprinkling does not drive pricing.

I could be wrong. Someday when I sell my Vector, perhaps it will sit unwanted at $10 grand while the ones with the SA markings on the bolt sell for $50,000. Maybe angry collectors will set fire to my house for desecrating a priceless artifact.